Self Defense usage of the Grappling Arts

[pdg]

As much as I love striking, realistically in a fight if you connect with your fist, good chance it's going to break. Use of elbows or palm strikes/kicks are probably better options.

I wouldn't put too much weight in that thing about breaking your hand in a fight if you use your fist - especially if you actually know how and where to punch.

I'd personally say that a palm strike with a bent wrist (palm heel strike) is actually more risky in terms of damaging your wrist bones, which don't like being in that position. It also exposes the soft and vulnerable suicide spot - go upwards with a palm heel toward the chin, miss or slip and tear open your ulnar and radial arteries on their teeth...

Elbow? Sure, but it's a much closer range weapon.

Kicks? Fine, but you'd better be good, accurate and fast if you don't want to telegraph it to hell and back and get your leg caught (and this is coming from someone who considers themselves well on the way to being a 'kicker').

 

[TMA17]

I wouldn't put too much weight in that thing about breaking your hand in a fight if you use your fist - especially if you actually know how and where to punch.

I'd personally say that a palm strike with a bent wrist (palm heel strike) is actually more risky in terms of damaging your wrist bones, which don't like being in that position. It also exposes the soft and vulnerable suicide spot - go upwards with a palm heel toward the chin, miss or slip and tear open your ulnar and radial arteries on their teeth...

Elbow? Sure, but it's a much closer range weapon.

Kicks? Fine, but you'd better be good, accurate and fast if you don't want to telegraph it to hell and back and get your leg caught (and this is coming from someone who considers themselves well on the way to being a 'kicker').

Good points. That leaves grappling as the last resort. In boxing when you tie up, you get pulled apart by a ref, in a street fight it could go to the ground. The clinch/either from Thai/BJJ/CCW is crucial I would think to be truly competent in any SD scenario.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've been thinking a lot lately about the importance of the grappling arts for SD. Fights obviously go to the ground. A good BJJ person wants it to go to the ground, a good striker does not. Knowing both is clearly the most important approach. I took a few months off and am about to start training again. My goal is to learn some grappling, but I'm leaning towards CCW. It's very hard to find a CCW place.

I spoke to an instructor today from PSD and they offer CCW (catch can wrestling). The little research that I've done has made me really interested in learning this art. I believe it's probably one of, if not the best, grappling art to know for SD.

Philadelphia JKD Grappling and Catch Wresting

"Much like JKD itself, we take an integrated approach to grappling that consists of sensitivity in flowing with positioning, escapes, take-downs, throws, lockups and ground fighting from Combat Submission Wrestling (CSW), Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Filipino Dumog, Submission Arts Wrestling (SAW,) Catch Wrestling (Catch-as-catch-can) and WWII combatives."

As much as I love striking, realistically in a fight if you connect with your fist, good chance it's going to break. Use of elbows or palm strikes/kicks are probably better options. On the flip side, knowing a good grappling art can really help you avoid that and maintain some control.

The really good IKMA school also has a good amount of ground work incorporated into their system. It's based on wrestling and Japanese JJ. Their view is do what you can to avoid going to the ground and once on the ground they want you up as soon as possible.

It's a myth that you are likely to break your fist in a fight. It can happen, but even entirely untrained people throw punches - to hard parts of the body - without breaking anything. And if you strike to softer or more "giving" surfaces (ribs, sternum, etc.), you reduce that risk even further.

Catch wrestling is a good option. But there's no "best" style. A mediocre CCW program won't be as good as an excellent BJJ, Judo, wrestling, etc. program. The style matters, but the training approach matters more.

 

[TMA17]

Great points gpseymour.

 

[drop bear]

It's a myth that you are likely to break your fist in a fight. It can happen, but even entirely untrained people throw punches - to hard parts of the body - without breaking anything. And if you strike to softer or more "giving" surfaces (ribs, sternum, etc.), you reduce that risk even further.

Catch wrestling is a good option. But there's no "best" style. A mediocre CCW program won't be as good as an excellent BJJ, Judo, wrestling, etc. program. The style matters, but the training approach matters more.

And you can break your wrist and fingers throwing palm heels.

Whenever people make this comparison they use a static solid target so that the palm heel hits at exactly the right spot.

Quite often when you train palm heels on focus mitts you hurt your hand because the other guy holds it wrong. And people still don't get there is risk to your hand there.

It infuriates me.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And you can break your wrist and fingers throwing palm heels.

Whenever people make this comparison they use a static solid target so that the palm heel hits at exactly the right spot.

Quite often when you train palm heels on focus mitts you hurt your hand because the other guy holds it wrong. And people still don't get there is risk to your hand there.

It infuriates me.

Yep. Used on a reasonable target, palm heels can be good. Target, unfortunately, can make them bad. To the head, I'm mostly willing to use them. Not so much to the body - punches are safer, IMO, to the body. I could argue both ways on head strikes.