Self-Defense laws in your state?

[Psilent Knight]

There is something I wanted to clear up a few posts back but I never got the chance to because I've allowed myself to join in the festivities of the entertainment committee. But the thing that started the full scale attack was my "Deafening Silence" remark. I can see why that would put a sour taste in some people's mouths.

Okay, first and foremost, that was an unnecessary and over the top remark and would have been better left unsaid. I accept accountability for the brief interlude in discussion that remark initiated.

Secondly, it was not the multi colored comparison post that I was referring to and was awaiting a response for. It was the two youtube links I provided and asking the participants what they would do in those situations.

Third of all, my "deafening silence" remark was not hinting at people's incapability to answer the question. I was hinting at an unwillingness to answer because no matter how you answer or approach it the possibility exists of those incidents being lose-lose situations. You either lose to aggressors or lose to the judges and jurors. So to answer would force us to be honest with ourselves and possibly negate what has been said (stance wise) up to that point. That is all I was referring to.

Fourth, I actually reached a point where I was no longer expecting a response to the links because of what I just said in the above statement.

I guess I didn't do a very good job of making my position crystal clear. Even now there are people here STILL TELLING ME that I have some kind of uncontrollable blood lust.

But basically I am saying that the law breaking trouble makers and the policy makers who do not live among or have to be bothered with said trouble makers are all saying that your life, health and well being mean little to nothing at all to them. They each say this in their own ways respectively. The trouble makers who want to end your life to take what you have and the legislators, prosecutors, judges and jurors placing protocols upon you to defend your life (not your material possessions mind you. If I know that's all they want and they have no intention of doing me any physical harm I would just hand over my material possessions and live to see another day). But these protocols aren't as solid and flawless as law makers would have you believe. I know that if a man who is 5'7, weighs 150 lbs. and is not a fighter wakes up in the middle of the knight to find a man who's about 6'2 or 6'3 and maybe 230 lbs raping his teen daughter and he shoots the guy (shooting to end his actions not specifically shooting to kill) and the guy ends up dead somehow, then this 5'7, 150 lbs. father is in hot water. We all know this. The law, the system, the courts CANNOT POSSIBLY KNOW the immediate circumstances of this type of situation. The fear, the anger, the pressure, the tunnel vision, THE SHOCK. The inability to do anything else with this monster. What else can this father and husband do?

Now, I'm well aware of what the SD laws in my state say in letter, but I am as equally aware of what they say in practice and application. If I tell my employees that they have the right to speak their minds and air out their grievances but usually suspend them or fire them for doing just that then what am I REALLY saying? I'm really saying that they don't have the right unless I grant them that right. And me suspending and/or firing them is me letting them know that I do not grant them that right in application. Only in letter.

If the laws tell you that you have the right to self defense but STILL prosecute you even in cut-and-dry situations of SD then what are these laws REALLY saying? These laws are saying you really don't have the right to defend yourself unless THEY grant you that right. And them prosecuting you is their way of letting you know that you don't have the right to SD regardless of what the letter of the law says. What I'm saying there are people in this world who decide whether you live or die and I'm not talking about the law breakers when I say this. How can you allow others to tell YOU what value YOUR LIFE has in this world? No one here can HONESTLY claim (let alone prove) that there are no law abiding citizens sitting in prison now because of circumstantial evidence (or the lack thereof), an overzealous prosecutor and the defendant not having the needed representation.

You guys seem to forget that prosecutors are not good people. They make a living out of putting people in prison. They love doing this and they are very happy with themselves for doing this. And they are NOT concerned with the actual guilt or innocence of their prey. They're only concerned with amassing a "lock 'em up and throw away the key" reputation.

But I said it before. This idea was ingrained in us from the time we were little kids all the way into adulthood. Very people are willing to sit back and ask themselves "Is this morally right?". Very few people are willing to question this arrangement. Very people are unwilling or unable to see the holes and flaws in this arrangement. Very people are able to realize and admit that other people have more control over your ability to defend yourself and your family than you do. And those who do realize this seem to not see anything wrong with it.

I could go into other reasons why I so thoroughly disagree with this arrangement but that would be outside the scope of a Martial Arts discussion forum and would require me to pull out the soap box (some here may think I have already).

It's essentially a never ending topic, but an important one.

 

[jobo]

Alright, here we go. This is what I am saying. The system was not there when I had to defend myself. The system did not see from my attacker what I had seen. The people in the system would do the same thing I had to do but will likely not face the same consequences as me due to their position and status. Do you see what I've been trying to say? The system may have it's job but you and I have ours. Is the system's job more important than ours as protectors of our families?



Okay, so what if someone breaks into your house and you make one of those other choices and it proves to be a fatal error in judgement? This is what happens a lot of times and the survivors of tragedies are left with saying that they regret not making the other choice when they could have (and probably should have). Like I said before, I don't want to kill anybody. But I don't want to be killed by anybody either or my loved ones. So what am I supposed to do? The system ofttimes paint the picture as black and white when most times it is not that simple. During the stress and fast paced pressure of a life or death situation you only have milliseconds to make the right choices and save your own life and/or your loved ones lives.



Even though you are correct in that's how the system operates it is something I've already said that I disagree with and I have given my reasons for disagreeing.



I disagree with this as well. It is TOTALLY the point because the situation of lost lives would never have happened had the guy not broken into my home. I don't know where you live, but where I live people are doing home invasions and they come in shooting from the time they enter. They no longer sneak in while you're at work. They violently break in at night while your family is in there and they no longer ask "where's the money"? They are immediately shooting the occupants and will make their own way through the house.

My attitude towards home invasions and some of these SD laws started to change when I kept up on the plight of the one family in the state of Wisconsin, USA. Two scum bags had broken into a wealthy home, tied up the father, raped his wife and daughter and burned them alive which killed them. It started off as a simply burglary home invasion and it degraded to that. I can't even begin to imagine the mental state of the father/husband who is alive but no longer has a wife and daughter. How different would it have turned out had he been better prepared and willing to do whatever it takes to protect himself and his family?



This is tricky because you can NOT shoot first and end of the one who is shot or you can shoot first and find out later that the perp either had a realistic looking toy gun or he had a real gun but it wasn't loaded. let's face it, the fact that we are having this conversation is proof positive that things go terribly wrong in SD situations and it just plain sucks! I would rather that WE ALL live in peace with no hunger and infringing on each other's rights.



Oh, so you're in the UK. Understood. I will tell you this much though; for the longest time I have always felt that people in the UK are generally "tougher" than most people in the US because of the no gun laws. I think too many people in the US are soft because of an over reliance on guns and other weapons. But much question to you is are there illegal guns on the streets in the UK? Because we have plenty of those here in the US.

you start of well, then you go to extreme situations to make a point, if someone kicks down your,door and runs in,shooting or any thing like that then I and I would hope the law would support your actions if you shot one or more of them.

but not all possible cases are that extreme or that cut and dried.

yes there are guns,around if you know the right people you can get one, but they are expensive and ammo is hard to come by and the,consequences of being caught with one is high, a likely five year,sentence, so they don't get carried around, they are hidden away for special occasions, every now and the the local gangs fall out and,start shooting each others windows in, once in a while they try and shoot each other and,occasionally,succeed, they,aren't very good shots,as there is no where to practise and,ammo is hard to get, the safest place to stand is right next to the guy they are aiming at

 

[Psilent Knight]

you start of well, then you go to extreme situations to make a point,

I only bring up extreme situations because they actually exist. They are real. I think it best to keep the extreme situations in mind so as not to live the rest of our lives with agony and mental anguish like the poor gentleman in Wisconsin I told you about. I'm going to see if I can track that case down for you. It's very disturbing.

if someone kicks down your,door and runs in,shooting or any thing like that then I and I would hope the law would support your actions if you shot one or more of them.

I would hope so too. But this situation WILL be investigated and that investigation leads to the possibility of prosecution. As I said earlier no one here can honestly claim that it does not happen. No one here can honestly claim that there aren't any innocent people who well within their rights to perform certain actions sitting in prison right now. No one here can honestly claim that there aren't cases that shouldn't even go to trial let alone punishing someone who was well within their rights to defend themselves and their loved ones. It happens when it shouldn't.

but not all possible cases are that extreme or that cut and dried.

I agree with you on both counts. Not all situations are that extreme but that extreme does exist and is a possibility. I'd say always hope for the best but prepare for the worst. The worst does exist and is a very real possibility.

I also agree that not all cases are that cut and dried but that is my point about the legal system. Far too many cases are tried and the the law is applied in a cut and dried manner when NOTHING is cut and dried. Nothing. If someone kicked your door in and you shot him I, nor anyone else, can possibly say what you should or should not have done. Only you know the real threat you were under. Even if you relate the story to me of what went down, your narration of the event can never be the same as actually being caught up in the actual event itself and being forced to make a split second life or death decision. Everything moving so quickly that you barely have time to think or react.

But anyway for me the Bottom Line is that I personally place more value on my life than the law actually does and I hope we don't kid ourselves here that the law does place a value on us. We can't win. We either keep our minds on restraint (though unwarranted) and suffer the consequences by our attackers or do what we have to do and suffer very possible consequences by the courts and the legal system. Yep, damned if you do, damned if you don't. This is what we're dealing with.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Yeah, it would be interesting but I gave up on expecting any responses from the pro compliance crowd. It went this long without a response from them for a reason which is very telling. The silence is deafening.

I find it rather unusual to find martial artists in a pro compliance crowd.

 

[PhotonGuy]

People with strong opinions are just that, people with strong opinions. Just because you type with colours and capital letters doesn't mean you are right. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't make other people wrong in theirs. It may seem like being a 'big man' to hoot and roar on hear but it just makes you a man who hoots and roars, something that is very easy to do on the internet so it's not surprising you are 'deafened' by the silence which is the sound of nobody caring what you think.

Of course people are entitled to their opinions, including opinions where they disagree, and its sometimes good when people disagree, if everybody always agreed it would be quite boring, but I don't think its too much if somebody disagrees to ask why they disagree and to ask them to explain their position. I am not going to ask everybody to agree with me about everything but if somebody does disagree with me I would like for them to explain why.

BTW when Psilent Knight was typing in different colors he wasn't hooting and roaring he was making an analogy and he was using the different colors to explain his analogy.

 

[Tez3]

Of course people are entitled to their opinions, including opinions where they disagree, and its sometimes good when people disagree, if everybody always agreed it would be quite boring, but I don't think its too much if somebody disagrees to ask why they disagree and to ask them to explain their position. I am not going to ask everybody to agree with me about everything but if somebody does disagree with me I would like for them to explain why.

BTW when Psilent Knight was typing in different colors he wasn't hooting and roaring he was making an analogy and he was using the different colors to explain his analogy.

Thank you so much for your mansplaining, however you have missed the entire point of my post. Your post should be directed to the hedge knight not myself, he is the one who doesn't like being disagreed with, no one else on this thread does. Don't you think though it's a shame he can't spell 'pestilent' though?

 

[Jenna]

Sorry, it's late evening here with heavy rain and thunderstorms forecast.

It had been quite hot there though recently no? I like how clear the air becomes after electrical storms!

 

[Tez3]

It had been quite hot there though recently no? I like how clear the air becomes after electrical storms!

It's 11 in the morning here, we have grey clouds and that awful muggy feeling, we are waiting for the storms still but they've been fierce elsewhere. Will be glad when the storm breaks and we can breathe. This is one of my most favourite places in the world last night Flash flood sweeps through Coverack in Cornwall - BBC News the Paris hotel is named after the SS Paris which ran aground on the headland, one of thousands of shipwrecks ( like this thread lol) off the Cornish coast.

 

[Jenna]

It's 11 in the morning here, we have grey clouds and that awful muggy feeling, we are waiting for the storms still but they've been fierce elsewhere. Will be glad when the storm breaks and we can breathe. This is one of my most favourite places in the world last night Flash flood sweeps through Coverack in Cornwall - BBC News the Paris hotel is named after the SS Paris which ran aground on the headland, one of thousands of shipwrecks ( like this thread lol) off the Cornish coast.

My son live in Cardiff said the same weather there too.. Wow yes that is crazy bad weather I caught that on BBC world.. well after they finally stop talking Trump and politics that is #booooring Well take care in the storm if it comes.. Michael Fish say it is unlikely though! Do not put up your umbrella! You are tough northerner so you can borrow your hubs cloth cap for the rain haha.. just kiddin take care out there

 

[hoshin1600]

maybe i shouldnt get into the mud but here goes.....

You guys seem to forget that prosecutors are not good people. They make a living out of putting people in prison. They love doing this and they are very happy with themselves for doing this. And they are NOT concerned with the actual guilt or innocence of their prey. They're only concerned with amassing a "lock 'em up and throw away the key" reputation.

i think this is your problem in dealing with all the posters. you have a quite defined distrust and perhaps warped view of the US legal system.
i read the bulk of your posts and overall you have said nothing wrong or out of the ordinary.

I know that if a man who is 5'7, weighs 150 lbs. and is not a fighter wakes up in the middle of the knight to find a man who's about 6'2 or 6'3 and maybe 230 lbs raping his teen daughter and he shoots the guy (shooting to end his actions not specifically shooting to kill) and the guy ends up dead somehow, then this 5'7, 150 lbs. father is in hot water.

maybe i am naive, but the way i read the law, this scenario you have given would be 100% legal to shoot an intuder/ rapist. but then you go on saying with a certain amount of venom that the shooter would be all but hanged for his crime

And they are NOT concerned with the actual guilt or innocence of their prey. They're only concerned with amassing a "lock 'em up and throw away the key" reputation.

i think your position on self defense is correct , i just think you have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to the legal system.

 

[CB Jones]

To get back on Topic.

Currently, traveling through New Mexico....quick research shows there is no stand your ground law.

Here, I have a duty to try and retreat if possible.


For residents, this is a castle doctrine state that releaves you from the duty to retreat when in your home.

 

[CB Jones]

Headed to Arizona.

Arizona does not have a specific stand your ground law but its laws do not require you to retreat so in essence it is a stand your ground state.

 

[Psilent Knight]

I find it rather unusual to find martial artists in a pro compliance crowd.

Or perhaps our expectations of martial artists are warped. As a kid there were many martial arts movies that I loved but two of them that I could never get enough of watching were Chinese Connection (aka Fist of Fury in Hong Kong) and Shogun Assassin (Lone Wolf and Cub). I remember always admiring the heroes of those movies for not allowing official titles and unfair rules persuade them from rightfully fighting back no matter the cost. I believe that kind of attitude should be admired in reality.

 

[lklawson]

Or perhaps our expectations of martial artists are warped. As a kid there were many martial arts movies that I loved but two of them that I could never get enough of watching were Chinese Connection (aka Fist of Fury in Hong Kong) and Shogun Assassin (Lone Wolf and Cub). I remember always admiring the heroes of those movies for not allowing official titles and unfair rules persuade them from rightfully fighting back no matter the cost. I believe that kind of attitude should be admired in reality.

Warped expectations of martial artists and then a reference to a personal story of setting expectations on martial artists based on movies?

Look, martial artists are just people and are populated with every opinion related to self defense ranging from pacifistic bunnies and light straight through assassinate your enemies from ambush and every permutation in between.

Movies? I enjoyed everything from "Challenge of the Ninja" through "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" but I don't expect them to tell me anything about the nature or expectation of martial artists beyond the fact that they can fly.

Whatever expectations anyone has for "martial artists" is already wrong.

 

[Psilent Knight]

i think this is your problem in dealing with all the posters. you have a quite defined distrust and perhaps warped view of the US legal system.

Okay, may I ask you if you know for 100% certainty that law abiding citizens are never, ever victimized by the legal system? Can you honestly claim and assure me that there isn't one person caught up in the legal system who rightfully defended him or herself but has to face consequences due to the "the system's" dislike of how he/she defended him/herself or that the assailant has lost his or her life during the altercation? Can anyone here do that and be acting on 100% honesty?

Besides that, I am convinced that my real problem in dealing with all the other posters is that most of them insist that I have a desire to kill any and all offenders no matter how many times I tell them otherwise. They deliberately choose to misinterpret my position as such no matter what I say. Insisting on my human right to self preservation and not being held back by some (but not all) rules that I deem unrealistic is not the same thing as wanting to kill someone.

i read the bulk of your posts and overall you have said nothing wrong or out of the ordinary.

I guess it's the way that I am saying what I have to say that's causing some people to go on the attack. But I can't worry about that since it's par for the course when posting on internet forums.

maybe i am naive, but the way i read the law, this scenario you have given would be 100% legal to shoot an intuder/ rapist.

Yes, it is 100% legal to shoot a rapist but it isn't 100% legal to KILL a rapist if you didn't feel that your life was at stake. I should have elaborated a little more on my scenario but I intended to paint a picture of the father shooting the intruder/rapist in the head thus killing him. Know and believe that this father faces a 97 or 98% chance of being prosecuted. THAT is how the law works. Technically he could have done something else to stop the intruder without killing him and his own life was not in immediate danger. This scenario I'm giving sucks on may levels (especially since it's extreme on many levels as well) but I know for certain that this is how the U.S. legal system operates.

I am on very friendly terms with two lawyers. One of them is my Kyokushin Instructor. The other one is the young man who told me (verbally mind you) that he is in the business of getting people out of trouble (he's a defense attorney and one of the best in Pgh). He didn't say this in so much as a bragging manner as he did in a matter of fact manner. But I can tell that he doesn't see anything wrong with what he does for a living and how the system actually works in practice (regardless of what the letter of the law says on paper). Not everyone questions the appropriateness or inappropriateness of certain ways the legal system is practiced.

I also have a police officer friend (he and I are really, really good friends and have been for a few years now) that I talk to a few times a month. We like to talk about martial arts, RBSD, things like that and he always likes to share with me what he knows about what happens during acts of crimes on the streets and how even he sees so many things wrong with the legal system. He sometimes vents to me because his hands are tied, if you know what I mean. When these three people talk to me about law and the legal system I do two things; I LISTEN INTENTLY and I ask the right PROBING QUESTIONS. You'd be surprised to learn that even some lawyers and police officers say that the legal system is messed up. And they don't mean the letter of the law, they are referring to how the law and the legal system are carried out and how they see people getting in trouble when they shouldn't. But technicalities and loopholes and, of course, prosecutors who are only looking for a big score victimize law abiding citizens who were forced into a really bad predicament.

I share their views. I have no problem with some of the SD laws in letter but I do have a problem with it in actual practice and application.

but then you go on saying with a certain amount of venom that the shooter would be all but hanged for his crime

No, I said that he faces the very real possibility of being hanged. The law says that taking another life is justifiable for the preservation of your own or a loved ones life but not for sexual assault. At least in any state other than Texas.

Sometimes the man isn't charged and there is a happy ending:

Texas father who beat Jesus Flores to death for raping 5-year-old daughter will NOT face murder charges | Daily Mail Online

And sometimes the man IS charged and a not so happy ending is in sight:

http://nypost.com/2016/05/31/husband-charged-for-beating-would-be-rapist-to-death/

Sometimes we have the absolute worst outcome ever. This is the very disturbing story I told @jobo about. Read it at your own risk if you want. Be warned though it will make you sick to your stomach and is beyond disturbing:

When Horror Came to a Connecticut Family

i think your position on self defense is correct , i just think you have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to the legal system.

I'm sorry you feel that way and I'm sorry if it appears that I have a chip on my shoulder. But it is not a chip on my shoulder, it's awareness of reality.

 

[hoshin1600]

i see a few glaring problems with your argument.
first the article of the husband beating the rapist to death,,
,Yes he was guilty and should go to prison. your first scenario was about a father shooting a rapist "in the act" i do believe that is justified force. you are allowed to use deadly force in the defense of others, even more so if within the domicile. however when the husband met the WOULD BE rapist (remember there was no rape) he met the rapist in the hallway of an apartment building after the event. there was no self defense at that point. self defense force can only be used to stop a threat, after the threat no longer exists, it is then deemed revenge. a punishable offense.

so yeah we all want to smash the guy, but we cant.

also i am well aware of the home invasion in CT. i often mention it as an example (and done so here many times). it took place about 30 min from my home.

Yes, it is 100% legal to shoot a rapist but it isn't 100% legal to KILL a rapist if you didn't feel that your life was at stake.

sorry interpretation is wrong wrong wrong.
this would take some time to explain in detail but to put it simply.. the use of a firearm has nothing to do with anything. it is about THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE . the use of a firearm falls under that distinction but so does a knife or a baseball bat. you cannot use any lethal force if you do not think your life is in danger. NO you are not allowed to shoot a rapist. you ARE allowed to use deadly force to stop a threat to yourself or those under your mantle of protection. (which a rape would fall under). any use of a firearm would be seen as deadly force so , you cant just shoot him in the leg.
the bottom line is, details count. big time. i think your trying to make a black and white judgment and you really cant do that.

but going back to you and your posts, the attitude of the posts do come off as "kill em all let god sort em out" . but that is because of the mix of statements about your attitude towards the legal system. i think your logical view point towards self defense is being overcast by your distrust of the law, which tints the posts.

 

[lklawson]

Okay, may I ask you if you know for 100% certainty that law abiding citizens are never, ever victimized by the legal system? Can you honestly claim and assure me that there isn't one person caught up in the legal system who rightfully defended him or herself but has to face consequences due to the "the system's" dislike of how he/she defended him/herself or that the assailant has lost his or her life during the altercation? Can anyone here do that and be acting on 100% honesty?

Besides that, I am convinced that my real problem in dealing with all the other posters is that most of them insist that I have a desire to kill any and all offenders no matter how many times I tell them otherwise. They deliberately choose to misinterpret my position as such no matter what I say. Insisting on my human right to self preservation and not being held back by some (but not all) rules that I deem unrealistic is not the same thing as wanting to kill someone.




I guess it's the way that I am saying what I have to say that's causing some people to go on the attack. But I can't worry about that since it's par for the course when posting on internet forums.



Yes, it is 100% legal to shoot a rapist but it isn't 100% legal to KILL a rapist if you didn't feel that your life was at stake. I should have elaborated a little more on my scenario but I intended to paint a picture of the father shooting the intruder/rapist in the head thus killing him. Know and believe that this father faces a 97 or 98% chance of being prosecuted. THAT is how the law works. Technically he could have done something else to stop the intruder without killing him and his own life was not in immediate danger. This scenario I'm giving sucks on may levels (especially since it's extreme on many levels as well) but I know for certain that this is how the U.S. legal system operates.

I am on very friendly terms with two lawyers. One of them is my Kyokushin Instructor. The other one is the young man who told me (verbally mind you) that he is in the business of getting people out of trouble (he's a defense attorney and one of the best in Pgh). He didn't say this in so much as a bragging manner as he did in a matter of fact manner. But I can tell that he doesn't see anything wrong with what he does for a living and how the system actually works in practice (regardless of what the letter of the law says on paper). Not everyone questions the appropriateness or inappropriateness of certain ways the legal system is practiced.

I also have a police officer friend (he and I are really, really good friends and have been for a few years now) that I talk to a few times a month. We like to talk about martial arts, RBSD, things like that and he always likes to share with me what he knows about what happens during acts of crimes on the streets and how even he sees so many things wrong with the legal system. He sometimes vents to me because his hands are tied, if you know what I mean. When these three people talk to me about law and the legal system I do two things; I LISTEN INTENTLY and I ask the right PROBING QUESTIONS. You'd be surprised to learn that even some lawyers and police officers say that the legal system is messed up. And they don't mean the letter of the law, they are referring to how the law and the legal system are carried out and how they see people getting in trouble when they shouldn't. But technicalities and loopholes and, of course, prosecutors who are only looking for a big score victimize law abiding citizens who were forced into a really bad predicament.

I share their views. I have no problem with some of the SD laws in letter but I do have a problem with it in actual practice and application.



No, I said that he faces the very real possibility of being hanged. The law says that taking another life is justifiable for the preservation of your own or a loved ones life but not for sexual assault. At least in any state other than Texas.

Sometimes the man isn't charged and there is a happy ending:

Texas father who beat Jesus Flores to death for raping 5-year-old daughter will NOT face murder charges | Daily Mail Online

And sometimes the man IS charged and a not so happy ending is in sight:

http://nypost.com/2016/05/31/husband-charged-for-beating-would-be-rapist-to-death/

Sometimes we have the absolute worst outcome ever. This is the very disturbing story I told @jobo about. Read it at your own risk if you want. Be warned though it will make you sick to your stomach and is beyond disturbing:

When Horror Came to a Connecticut Family




I'm sorry you feel that way and I'm sorry if it appears that I have a chip on my shoulder. But it is not a chip on my shoulder, it's awareness of reality.

Look. Stop talking. You're wrong and you're misrepresenting or misunderstanding facts. The reason Diallo was charges is because he WAS NOT ACTING IN DEFENSE. The would-be-rapist was not a threat of serious bodily harm at the time that Mr. Diallo killed him.

The law, with few exceptions, allows deadly force to be employed against an attacker who is offering an immediate, genuine, articulable threat of death or serious bodily harm to an innocent party. That was the case when Mr. Flores was killed. He was in the act of raping and thus Deadly Force was justified. It was not the case for Mr. Diallo because his victim was not engaged in any threatening activity when Mr. Diallo killed him.

Dude. Stop giving legal opinions. You're wrong and little of what you write is based in precedent but most of it is in direct conflict with what lawyers specializing in self defense have said.

Go grind your ax elsewhere.

As a general warning to anyone else in the U.S. who might be reading what Mr. "Psilent Knight" is writing, stop now. This dude is more wrong than a $3 bill. If you're U.S. based, go buy books and read articles by lawyers like Alan Gottlieb, buy videos and books by expert witnesses like Massad Ayoob, read the articles by experts at USA Carry, 2nd Call Defense, or The Armed Citizens Legal Defense Fund, understand the 4 Pillars of Justifiable Deadly Force (Opportunity, Imminent Jeopardy, Ability, Preclusion). But whatever you do, ignore this guy's ravings. At best it will only confuse the subject for you.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Thank you so much for your mansplaining, however you have missed the entire point of my post. Your post should be directed to the hedge knight not myself, he is the one who doesn't like being disagreed with, no one else on this thread does. Don't you think though it's a shame he can't spell 'pestilent' though?

That's too bad. When somebody disagrees it can be an opportunity to learn and to see where they're coming from. Its good to see other people's viewpoints.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Look, martial artists are just people and are populated with every opinion related to self defense ranging from pacifistic bunnies and light straight through assassinate your enemies from ambush and every permutation in between.

I don't imagine a pacifistic bunny taking up martial arts in the first place.

 

[PhotonGuy]

My son live in Cardiff said the same weather there too.. Wow yes that is crazy bad weather I caught that on BBC world.. well after they finally stop talking Trump and politics that is #booooring Well take care in the storm if it comes.. Michael Fish say it is unlikely though! Do not put up your umbrella! You are tough northerner so you can borrow your hubs cloth cap for the rain haha.. just kiddin take care out there

In Cardiff I heard they get lots of rain, something to do with the positions of the mountains. I was once in Cardiff, but that was many years ago.