Self-Defense laws in your state?

[Psilent Knight]

It's amazing that some people like 'the clown' show a serious lack of intelligence in their posts but still have the busiest keyboard fingers. At least he's honest enough to choose an avatar that's appropriate.

 

[Psilent Knight]

It takes almost zero effort to post cheap shots in an internet forum and for a person to only do so without giving a rebuttal to the argument of the person whom they're trying to attack says a whole lot about them. That's what childish and unintelligent people do when they're unable to logically argue their case.

 

[jks9199]

Yeah, it would be interesting but I gave up on expecting any responses from the pro compliance crowd. It went this long without a response from them for a reason which is very telling. The silence is deafening.

You're getting no response because there's no point.

You don't like how the laws work, fine. Work to change them. Accept the consequences if you choose to disregard them. You're complaining and talking about how "it should be." Great. Guess what? How it "should be" isn't how it is. Until you get that, there's no point repeating myself; you're so caught in your point of view that you're not actually getting what I'm saying.

There are laws against doing harm to someone, no matter what. If you are attacked, you may well hurt someone defending yourself. If you do, your actions will be judged by the standards of the law, both black letter and precedent. If your actions are determined to be reasonable and appropriate by the relevant standards, you may not be charged. If you are charged, one of your options is the affirmative claim of self defense. An affirmative defense means you admit you violated the letter of the law, but that you had justification that should excuse from the consequences. A judge or jury will decide if your claim stands up or not... but it starts with your admission that you did do the crime.

Meanwhile, separately, there are tort claims. See, we as a society have decided that if people can't peaceably settle their differences on their own, they should do so in a courtroom. We tally the score in civil court in dollars, usually. Many crimes have parallel torts; murder is parallel to wrongful death, assault is both crime and tort. You may be found not criminally culpable, but still found to be liable for damages in civil court because the standards of proof are different...

 

[Psilent Knight]

You're getting no response because there's no point.

Maybe so. I quite often feel the same way. But I don't get the least bit upset because other people disagree with me. If I feel that there's truly no point I "agree to disagree" and leave it alone. I don't feel the need to take unprovoked jabs at people because they have viewpoints/opinions that are different from mine (mind you I'm not accusing you of doing this).

You don't like how the laws work, fine. Work to change them. Accept the consequences if you choose to disregard them.

Well we've already covered this point earlier in the thread. I see no need to beat that particular dead horse.

You're complaining and talking about how "it should be." Great. Guess what? How it "should be" isn't how it is. Until you get that, there's no point repeating myself; you're so caught in your point of view that you're not actually getting what I'm saying.

First of all, you have once again [indirectly] acknowledged the validity of my view on this issue by admitting that how things "should be" isn't how THEY ARE. Second of all, I DO get that. I just don't like it and do not accept it for myself. Third of all, I get what you're saying loud and clear. Your position was never missed on me. However, it is painfully obvious to me that YOU and a few others are essentially incapable of getting what I'm saying. I know that you're not getting it and I know why you're not getting it.

There are laws against doing harm to someone, no matter what. If you are attacked, you may well hurt someone defending yourself. If you do, your actions will be judged by the standards of the law, both black letter and precedent.

This is a perfect example of you demonstrating that you are the one who doesn't get it. If you are incapable of seeing the moral illegitimacy of your bold statement in the above quote then it is truly hopeless.

Now think about the following statements you issued. I hope you read it carefully with your blinders off and I hope you reflect on it very carefully.

If your actions are determined to be reasonable and appropriate by the relevant standards, you may not be charged. If you are charged, one of your options is the affirmative claim of self defense. An affirmative defense means you admit you violated the letter of the law, but that you had justification that should excuse from the consequences. A judge or jury will decide if your claim stands up or not... but it starts with your admission that you did do the crime.

Crime? Crime? So you admit that the law puts us between a rock and a hard place and sometimes makes self protection a crime? Do you not see the obvious and glaring problem with this? WOW! Just...WOW!

I hope you can briefly and honestly set aside your undying loyalty to "The Law" long enough to objectively reflect upon these last two posts of yours, especially the bold sentences.

What can I say except "WOW"?

 

[Tez3]

It may seem like being a 'big man' to tell a person he hoots and roars when you hoot and roar yourself but it just makes you a man who tells another person he hoots and roars when you simply hoot and roar yourself. And I don't care what a person who can't spell thinks.

Oh dear, oh dear, I freely admit I'm no big man, not even a man. Your posts are extremely funny in that you are trying to convince the adults you are old enough to come out and play. I'm not in the least macho, quite the opposite and I simply don't see your need to flood this place with your adolescent testosterone.
As for spelling, oh my, when you are perfect do come and tell me how I'm not......

 

[Tez3]

It takes almost zero effort to post cheap shots in an internet forum and for a person to only do so without giving a rebuttal to the argument of the person whom they're trying to attack says a whole lot about them. That's what childish and unintelligent people do when they're unable to logically argue their case.

You've had sensible and sane answers on here, you don't like them. You don't like people disagreeing with you, we know this because you keep insulting people so tell us again why we should take what you say seriously?

 

[Psilent Knight]

As for spelling, oh my, when you are perfect do come and tell me how I'm not......

I already did by letting you know you can't spell.

so tell us again why we should take what you say seriously?

So tell me again why I should bother paying attention to a [supposed] adult who can't even spell.

 

[Tez3]

I already did by letting you know you can't spell.



So tell me again why I should bother paying attention to a [supposed] adult who can't even spell.

Oh diddums, don't get your blood pressure up my dear. 'Can't even spell' says the man who wants to kill people. Oh my. If all you have to concern you is one word misspelt then aren't you lucky, if that's the worse you can say about me 'ooo she misspelt one word' ( misspelt is different you know from not being able to spell) then I'm one up already because I'm not the one that sneered at genuine answers from people who care, I'm not the one who feels superior to police officers, I'm not the one who posted insults to these people. Fine, you have an opinion but you know the saying about that don't you. Why don't you pretend it's your day for adulting.

 

[jobo]

It's amazing that some people like 'the clown' show a serious lack of intelligence in their posts but still have the busiest keyboard fingers. At least he's honest enough to choose an avatar that's appropriate.

that not any old clown, that's a,KILLER clown, I thought you would aprove

 

[oftheherd1]

I already did by letting you know you can't spell.



So tell me again why I should bother paying attention to a [supposed] adult who can't even spell.

If that is your unbreakable rule for judging adulthood, you will miss meeting and learning from a lot of adults (and apparently already are), and you will unnecessarily face many disappointments in life.

Coincidently, you will probably be led astray by many juveniles with non-adult ideas, who are nonetheless excellent spellers. I wish you luck.

 

[oftheherd1]

Maybe so. I quite often feel the same way. But I don't get the least bit upset because other people disagree with me. If I feel that there's truly no point I "agree to disagree" and leave it alone. I don't feel the need to take unprovoked jabs at people because they have viewpoints/opinions that are different from mine (mind you I'm not accusing you of doing this).

It may seem like being a 'big man' to tell a person he hoots and roars when you hoot and roar yourself but it just makes you a man who tells another person he hoots and roars when you simply hoot and roar yourself. And I don't care what a person who can't spell thinks.

...

Crime? Crime? So you admit that the law puts us between a rock and a hard place and sometimes makes self protection a crime? Do you not see the obvious and glaring problem with this? WOW! Just...WOW!

I hope you can briefly and honestly set aside your undying loyalty to "The Law" long enough to objectively reflect upon these last two posts of yours, especially the bold sentences.

What can I say except "WOW"?

Actually, the law also defines under what circumstances something that is defined in one part of the law as a crime, may not be with a given action and the response to it. All part of the law. You miss that.

Glad you like the "WOW" word and expression. Feel free to use it any time as I don't own it.

 

[lklawson]

Yeah, it would be interesting but I gave up on expecting any responses from the pro compliance crowd. It went this long without a response from them for a reason which is very telling. The silence is deafening.

Oh good grief Charlie Brown. Still on this crap? Look, the "silence" isn't "deafening," it's TELLING YOU SOMETHING. The problem is either that you aren't listening to the message or misunderstanding what the message is.

The "deafening silence" is a message that the posters here are, by and large, tired of your argument on this subject and have moved on to ignoring it.

The fact that you either can't or won't pick up on this not-so-subtle hint is likely due to you investing too much personal ego into "being right" and have linked your competitive nature and manhood into it subconsciously. IOW, you've slipped into a Drunken Friday Night Monkey Dance for Male Dominance Ritual. But no one here wants to play. You're not going to "one up" the other male monkeys here and none of the females seem to be interested in your peacock tail-spread of Male Dominance ritual.

So let me sum it up for you in 3 bullet points:

• Most people here don't care about your argument any more
• You're not rising up the social ladder as a dominant monkey
• The chicks are digging it

Let it go, dude.

 

[Psilent Knight]

Oh diddums, don't get your blood pressure up my dear.

LOL. You wish 'my dear'.

'Can't even spell' says the man who wants to kill people.

If you can go back in this thread and find where I ever said that I want to kill people I will not only leave this thread alone I will leave Martial Talk altogether. Come on, you know you can't resist. And let me correct one thing before you even try it. Me saying that I will not be concerned with exercising restraint if my life is on the line is not the same thing as saying I will be deliberately trying to kill someone. I made it clear that I will do whatever it takes to preserve my own life (or that of my loved ones). This is the attitude that we all should have but not everyone here has it. There are some of you here who still insist that we should be concerned about "the law" when we're in life-or-death mode.

Oh my. If all you have to concern you is one word misspelt then aren't you lucky, if that's the worse you can say about me 'ooo she misspelt one word' ( misspelt is different you know from not being able to spell) then I'm one up

Actually, you're not. Most times spelling and grammatical errors showcase either a) the age of a person or b) the intelligence level of a person. I already know which I would choose that applies to you but I'll leave it there for now.

I'm not the one that sneered at genuine answers from people who care, I'm not the one who feels superior to police officers, I'm not the one who posted insults to these people.

Okay first of all, I reiterate my earlier challenge. Go back in this thread and showcase for all to see where, when and how I "sneered" at any genuine responses given by people here and I will leave this thread alone (even if the thread keeps going). I will remove myself from this discussion and will not reinsert myself back into even if this goes for another 100 pages or so.

Secondly, show in any of my posts (for all to see) where I EVER said that I feel superior to police officers or that I feel that they are inferior to me, for that matter. You'll never find it because I never said such a thing.

Third, and most important of all, show, for all to see, where, when and how I posted insults to these people. As far as my last few posts toward you and "The Killer Clown" I only returned was hurled at me first. And I corrected one person's earlier misconception that I was comparing him to common citizens of N. Korea and Saudi Arabia. I always prefer civil discussion but if a person decides to act childish I have a choice to either retaliate or ignore them altogether. Which, my dear, would you rather I do?

Fine, you have an opinion but you know the saying about that don't you.

Yeah, I know. Not only does everybody have one but most of them "stink".

Why don't you pretend it's your day for adulting.

Because I'm already aware that you're pretending it's your day for adulting. I don't want to step on your toes.

 

[lklawson]

Actually, you're not. Most times spelling and grammatical errors showcase either a) the age of a person or b) the intelligence level of a person. I already know which I would choose that applies to you but I'll leave it there for now.

Most times spelling and grammar Nazis don't have a clew.

 

[Psilent Knight]

If that is your unbreakable rule for judging adulthood, you will miss meeting and learning from a lot of adults (and apparently already are), and you will unnecessarily face many disappointments in life.

Don't be absurd dude. She's letting off some steam on an internet forum and that was just my way of letting her know that I am not taking her seriously. That's all. I honestly couldn't care less if she was completely illiterate. No concern of mine. Calm down dude. You've read way too much into that and are taking it way too seriously.

Coincidently, you will probably be led astray by many juveniles with non-adult ideas, who are nonetheless excellent spellers. I wish you luck.

Well, it hasn't happened so far. How about you? Sounds to me like you are speaking from experience.

Actually, the law also defines under what circumstances something that is defined in one part of the law as a crime, may not be with a given action and the response to it. All part of the law. You miss that.

Wrong! I didn't miss that AT ALL. I had pointed this out to CBJones already very early on in this thread. I really don't want to repeat myself. jks9199 said he was tired of repeating himself and I have been doing that quite a bit in this thread and don't want to do it again. But in any case, you are incorrect. I didn't miss that. I already covered this in one of my earlier responses. I'm afraid You missed that.

Glad you like the "WOW" word and expression. Feel free to use it any time as I don't own it.

You focus on the word itself instead of how and why it is used. Not adult like at all. It makes me wonder if perhaps a certain someone was led astray by many juveniles with non-adult ideas.

 

[Psilent Knight]

Oh good grief Charlie Brown. Still on this crap? Look, the "silence" isn't "deafening," it's TELLING YOU SOMETHING. The problem is either that you aren't listening to the message or misunderstanding what the message is.

The "deafening silence" is a message that the posters here are, by and large, tired of your argument on this subject and have moved on to ignoring it.

The fact that you either can't or won't pick up on this not-so-subtle hint is likely due to you investing too much personal ego into "being right" and have linked your competitive nature and manhood into it subconsciously. IOW, you've slipped into a Drunken Friday Night Monkey Dance for Male Dominance Ritual. But no one here wants to play. You're not going to "one up" the other male monkeys here and none of the females seem to be interested in your peacock tail-spread of Male Dominance ritual.

This entire post is nonsensical. If you think you detect "ego", "the need to be right" or "male dominance" from me you're only projecting how YOU think and what drives you while you post and this very post of yours is a perfect example of that. Hypocrite much? Everything you just tried to accuse me of you did yourself in your very post. Congratulations on showing others what you really are.

So let me sum it up for you in 3 bullet points:

• Most people here don't care about your argument any more

Which is fine by me. In spite of what you think or what you want to think I was never trying to win an argument. I gain nothing by doing such thing anyway. Neither was I trying to convince the rest of you that you're necessarily wrong because some of the SD laws I agree with while certain other aspects I disagree with. YOU GUYS are the ones telling me that I'm wrong for disagreeing with those laws. All I ever wanted you guys to do was THINK. Ponder on some of these laws, think really hard about them and ask yourselves "Is This Morally Right?" If you think that it is morally right then fine. Live your lives and react in a SD situation according to your conclusions. I have pondered this a long time ago and I have come to the conclusion that it is not morally right and I will live my life and react in a SD situation according to my conclusions. No big deal. Either way we both face negative consequences because it's as I said before. It is essentially "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't".

• You're not rising up the social ladder as a dominant monkey

You mean on an internet forum with a bunch of faceless strangers who are not important to me I'm not rising up the social ladder as a dominant monkey? Oh woes is me. What ever am I going to do? I guess I'll try one of the pacifist religious forums. Maybe I'll have more luck there.

• The chicks are digging it

The chicks ARE digging it? Well alriiiiight!!!! I guess some of my Drunken Friday Night Monkey Dance for Male Dominance Ritual is beginning to pay off after all. I just hope you're not angry because I know this is why you make your Drunken Friday Night Monkey Dance for Male Dominance Ritual posts.

Let it go, dude.

Gladly. I'm not one for convincing. Like I already said, you see it the way you do and I see it the way that I do. Unlike most posters here I refuse to willingly participate in the sucker's game and let other people tell me whether or not I have the right to defend myself. And I don't care what you have to say, that's exactly what the SD laws are doing.

I'm glad that I'm free-minded.

 

[Psilent Knight]

Most times spelling and grammar Nazis don't have a clew.

And 99% of the time people who try to hone in on "grammar Nazis" are even more "clooless"

 

[oftheherd1]

...

It's too bad you cannot see the backward way of thinking it is to think and say the part of your quote that I underlined. I don't need anyone giving me the right to choose which laws to obey and which laws to disobey. I give myself that right. It is a natural and basic human right. And YES I am completely prepared to face the consequences this may bring.

Your attitude and way of thinking would make you a perfect citizen in North Korea. I'm sure you know enough about North Korea to realize that plenty of their laws are unjust and should not be imposed on any human beings anywhere on this planet. Same goes for Saudi Arabia. Do you agree that women should not be allowed to drive? Do you agree that women should not be allowed outside of their homes without being accompanied by a male relative? Like you said in your quote they aren't given the right to choose to obey those laws or not even though I'm sure you know just as well as I do that those are some of the most oppressive and unjust laws any person can concoct.
...

...

Feel free to re-read that part of my post if you wish or don't re-read it, but I DID NOT equate your way of thinking to that of common citizens of North Korea or Saudi Arabia. You told me that I am not given the right to disobey laws and I responded by telling you that that mentality or way of thinking will make YOU a good citizen of North Korea or Saudi Arabia since the governments of those two countries would rather that their citizens do not even question, let alone disobey, their unjust laws. Please try to note the difference between me saying YOU would make a good citizen of those countries rather than me saying you think like the common citizens of North Korea or Saudi Arabia which would be stupid for me to say because I know that there are plenty of citizens in those two countries who realize that the laws they live under are unjust and oppressive.

Thank You. And I wish you a good day as well.

Just curious, now that the two statements are close to each other, and bolded, will you still say you did not equate my way of thinking to that of citizen of North Korea? If so, you are committing a worse faux paux than incorrect spelling of the occasional word.

 

[jobo]

Don't be absurd dude. She's letting off some steam on an internet forum and that was just my way of letting her know that I am not taking her seriously. That's all. I honestly couldn't care less if she was completely illiterate. No concern of mine. Calm down dude. You've read way too much into that and are taking it way too seriously.



Well, it hasn't happened so far. How about you? Sounds to me like you are speaking from experience.



Wrong! I didn't miss that AT ALL. I had pointed this out to CBJones already very early on in this thread. I really don't want to repeat myself. jks9199 said he was tired of repeating himself and I have been doing that quite a bit in this thread and don't want to do it again. But in any case, you are incorrect. I didn't miss that. I already covered this in one of my earlier responses. I'm afraid You missed that.



You focus on the word itself instead of how and why it is used. Not adult like at all. It makes me wonder if perhaps a certain someone was led astray by many juveniles with non-adult ideas.

try a sensible approach and,see if you write back in green ink.
you seem to be trying to make yourself an oppressed minority.
from my perspective, I wouldn't think twice,about taking someone's life if it were me or him, even less if it were my family involved, but, having gone through the legal,system for a far from deadly bit of self defence I did, it not something I would,do except in the most dire of circumstances, even coming out on the other side as not guilty, you gave already changed your life past all recognition abd gone through a mind blowing,amount of,stress and upset.and then there is his family plotting revenge

that's why I find your casual, matter of fact,attitude hard to understand , I'm not allowed a gun, very few are here, but if I was, for my sake, my families sake,and the other guys sake, id make sure I had no other choice before I pulled that trigger

 

[Psilent Knight]

Just curious, now that the two statements are close to each other, and bolded, will you still say you did not equate my way of thinking to that of citizen of North Korea? If so, you are committing a worse faux paux than incorrect spelling of the occasional word.

Now that the two statements are close to each other, and bolded my answer is YES I am still saying that I DID NOT equate your thinking to that of citizens of North Korea. If you still think so I can only put that on you either not comprehending the obvious differences in the two statements OR you wish to have something to argue about.