Self Defense from rape

[Steve]

Except that the folks I know who teach "self-defense" don't seem to do that. I'm sure some do, but I haven't run into much of that. Look at my website - no fear mongering there, and my site is about average (if less well thought out in places) compared to others I know of. I offer to teach them techniques for defending themselves, using methods that have shown reasonable success in the past. I make sure they are aware of the limitations of their training. I make sure they get chances to fail during training, so they don't believe they are learning anything that is invincible. Where's the false sense of security?

Oh come on. We see it around here all the time. People are getting sliced by strangers with razors, and shot and stabbed and mayhem and you have to sweep the leg and stomp the head. I could point you to several examples within the last few days of exactly this kind of hyperbolic approach.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Except that the folks I know who teach "self-defense" don't seem to do that. I'm sure some do, but I haven't run into much of that. Look at my website - no fear mongering there, and my site is about average (if less well thought out in places) compared to others I know of. I offer to teach them techniques for defending themselves, using methods that have shown reasonable success in the past. I make sure they are aware of the limitations of their training. I make sure they get chances to fail during training, so they don't believe they are learning anything that is invincible. Where's the false sense of security?

I don't do the fear mongering sales pitch either. I've discovered that many people who have excessive fear usually will have a poor training experience because they are obsessed with the fear instead of the actual training.. They will go through the entire class with the mindset "What if.....?" I think people like that are looking for someone to say, here's a fail proof technique, that works on even small people. They won't that reassurance that if they do the technique that all will be well.

 

[Tez3]

please dont keep repeating the 90% rule like that you are misusing the data and misleading readers. the data says 90% (for the sake of conversation we will agree on the percent) of rape offenders are known to the victim. this does not imply that there is a close relationship between the two. they may be known but.... as examples

Have you had police training on this? Have you taken statements from victims? I can assure you that like previous misunderstandings of my posts you are reading this incorrectly. Most rape victims know their attacker, I'm sorry you disagree with that.

 

[Tez3]

Wait. Wait. but if they are happy doing the training. Whats the real harm?

Not my point about the training, I was showing Hoshin that training is advertised as being gender specific. I said that training is targeted ( not whether it was good training or bad) towards women these days because it's good business, he said he wasn't seeing that but if you use Googlefu you will see hundreds if not thousands of gender specific classes.
I wasn't looking at it as whether the women liked the training or not just that he was wrong when he said they weren't targeting women. I'm not saying they shouldn't be either, it's a good idea for women to train and to train in female only classes.


Self defence training should be realistic, not just in the techniques taught but the rest of the self defence arsenal, it shouldn't scaremonger, it should give all possibilities of how to deal with an attack rather than 'scratch his eyes out' ( yes I've seen that advice on a video on FB) you could but it has to be in context, unlike the video the attacker isn't going to stand there and let you. Working with unresisting partners which allow people to think their techniques work is ridiculous in all training never mind self defence training, giving people a false sense of security likewise. If you are thinking I'm not advocating self defence training for women then you are incorrect, I just want it to be useful and correct training which has been thought out from a victims view point not that of a black belt who wants to show how he can help and tells a woman she must fight under all circumstances because that's what he would do, it's well meaning but deadly advice.

Yes victims are most likely attacked by someone they know, the statistics aren't just that, each one is a story of misery and horror for the victims.

 

[hoshin1600]

Tez, this is an important topic and one that is worth talking about. But your verbally attacking everyone and anyone. We all want the same end result but your aggressive posts are counterproductive to the discussion. Rather than crap on everyone and tell us how wrong we all are because we are men how about offering up some solutions. You've turned this thread and every one like it into your own soap box rant.
And because of that I'm out.

 

[Tez3]

Tez, this is an important topic and one that is worth talking about. But your verbally attacking everyone and anyone. We all want the same end result but your aggressive posts are counterproductive to the discussion. Rather than crap on everyone and tell us how wrong we all are because we are men how about offering up some solutions. You've turned this thread and every one like it into your own soap box rant.
And because of that I'm out.

Really, after others have said it was a good discussion? Okay, if you feel defensive about this I'm sorry but I'm not attacking anyone, with DB's post he misunderstood what I meant, perhaps I didn't phrase it properly but I was just pointing out what I actually meant. Misunderstandings happen and I would point out you attacked me over the 'statistics' you said were misleading and I was completely wrong about despite what I know from my experience in dealing with rape cases and yes I've had training on how to investigate and deal with these.
As for the 'aggressive' part, often people will say a woman is being aggressive when she is actually being passionate about the subject. I haven't dumped on people because they are male, you are making this about my gender which is odd. I have offered several solutions and ways forward, you choose to ignore them and turn it on me instead.

Think it's time for me to take a break from MT as obviously I'm not wanted here.

 

[drop bear]

Not my point about the training, I was showing Hoshin that training is advertised as being gender specific. I said that training is targeted ( not whether it was good training or bad) towards women these days because it's good business, he said he wasn't seeing that but if you use Googlefu you will see hundreds if not thousands of gender specific classes.
I wasn't looking at it as whether the women liked the training or not just that he was wrong when he said they weren't targeting women. I'm not saying they shouldn't be either, it's a good idea for women to train and to train in female only classes.


Self defence training should be realistic, not just in the techniques taught but the rest of the self defence arsenal, it shouldn't scaremonger, it should give all possibilities of how to deal with an attack rather than 'scratch his eyes out' ( yes I've seen that advice on a video on FB) you could but it has to be in context, unlike the video the attacker isn't going to stand there and let you. Working with unresisting partners which allow people to think their techniques work is ridiculous in all training never mind self defence training, giving people a false sense of security likewise. If you are thinking I'm not advocating self defence training for women then you are incorrect, I just want it to be useful and correct training which has been thought out from a victims view point not that of a black belt who wants to show how he can help and tells a woman she must fight under all circumstances because that's what he would do, it's well meaning but deadly advice.

Yes victims are most likely attacked by someone they know, the statistics aren't just that, each one is a story of misery and horror for the victims.

Yeah the issue is the same as self defence. There is no standard and nobody really knows.

So solving the problem means you have to wade through a lot of half truths. The idea is to arm yourself with as many tools as you can to defend yourself. For me I can't do grief counceling or really help mentally rebuild a raped woman. So I don't. I can teach someone to beat on a guy untill they pee themselves. So that is what I do.

Now I am not discounting the other stuff it is important. It absolutely is but you would need to go to someone else to discuss it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Oh come on. We see it around here all the time. People are getting sliced by strangers with razors, and shot and stabbed and mayhem and you have to sweep the leg and stomp the head. I could point you to several examples within the last few days of exactly this kind of hyperbolic approach.

I'm sure it is done. I don't read advertising from self-defense schools much (I probably should, but I don't). I'm familiar with what's on the websites of the places I know, since I visit their sites to see what's going on.

And I have heard instructors get themselves caught up in that loop in their own heads, and bring it to class after an incident that shakes them. I just haven't seen it used in advertising very often, nor have I ever heard it discussed with a prospective student. My point is that it's surely out there, but since I've not seen it among the folks I know, I find it hard to believe it's almost everyone. Surely a significant portion of SD programs do - it seems an easy marketing idea, and many will jump for whatever brings in students.

 

[Tez3]

For me I can't do grief counceling or really help mentally rebuild a raped woma

I didn't do that either, my job was to take the evidence and catch the rapists.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not my point about the training, I was showing Hoshin that training is advertised as being gender specific. I said that training is targeted ( not whether it was good training or bad) towards women these days because it's good business, he said he wasn't seeing that but if you use Googlefu you will see hundreds if not thousands of gender specific classes.
I wasn't looking at it as whether the women liked the training or not just that he was wrong when he said they weren't targeting women. I'm not saying they shouldn't be either, it's a good idea for women to train and to train in female only classes.


Self defence training should be realistic, not just in the techniques taught but the rest of the self defence arsenal, it shouldn't scaremonger, it should give all possibilities of how to deal with an attack rather than 'scratch his eyes out' ( yes I've seen that advice on a video on FB) you could but it has to be in context, unlike the video the attacker isn't going to stand there and let you. Working with unresisting partners which allow people to think their techniques work is ridiculous in all training never mind self defence training, giving people a false sense of security likewise. If you are thinking I'm not advocating self defence training for women then you are incorrect, I just want it to be useful and correct training which has been thought out from a victims view point not that of a black belt who wants to show how he can help and tells a woman she must fight under all circumstances because that's what he would do, it's well meaning but deadly advice.

Yes victims are most likely attacked by someone they know, the statistics aren't just that, each one is a story of misery and horror for the victims.

I will say that I know of a couple of instructors who use gender-specific advertising to women, because they don't seem to respond much to the non-specific marketing. An instructor who offers a women's self-defense program will probably find one or two women who want some actual training and will join classes. Men who want classes seem to be easier to attract through generic advertising. I don't know if that's because the "generic" advertising actually isn't as gender-generic as it is thought to be (including that written by women), or if it's because there's a population of women who prefer to get their introduction in a single-gender environment (for reasons you've pointed out earlier - the same reasons some women-only fitness places exist).

 

[Tez3]

As I said gender specific advertising is fine, I was saying it is out there in answer to a comment that it wasn't. Why some women want to train on their own whether for self defence or martial arts is a whole different thread. I know men who prefer to train with only men ( and women who want to train with men), it's a preference based on what individuals want, it's neither right or wrong just a preference.

 

[jobo]

u treating and quite wide ranging discussion, my thought in no logical order
the best way to avoid date/friend rape is to have a psychotic brother/ father/ boy friend. What happened may or may not be rape to a criminal standard. But the certain knowledge that that will be kicked in to intensive care has quite a calming effect on peoples amour.

personal responsibility has some degree of importance, not that that shifts the blame in anyway, nor perhaps to the degree that some are suggesting on here. As soon as you have a situation where women can't go out alone in the park or out of the way places, then you have lost control of society and effectively imprisoned them. That said there are some places I wouldn't go,after dark and a few I would avoid at all times, so what's good for me as a big bloke is equally good advice for them.

getting so drunk you cant even makes an attempt at defending yourself never mind having passed out, is a exercise that both sexes should avoid except for being in trusted places with trusted people. At the very least you should know who you are, where you are and roughly how to get home and be capable of doing so with out someone carrying you. Otherwise your just places your responsibility for your own safety on to others, who may let you down.

mode of dress is a tricky one, women should just be able to dress as they wish, but dressing provocatively to get attention might end up with attention you don't want. I had to stop my wife going out in a leather dress slashed to the hip and across the chest line in which she looked lovely, as it just attracted leching drunks and i got fed up with punching them. If having a 200 lb 6 Footer on your arm doesn't discourage them I'm not sure what would

 

[Buka]

Mode of dress can indeed be tricky. Then there's this -

Had a radio call the other night at work. "Caucasian female, early twenties, appears intoxicated, coming down the side walk - naked."

I used to hear these and think, "What the hell is that all about?" Now I just think, "Swell, another one."

 

[Paul_D]

I had to stop my wife going out in a leather dress

Sorry but am I actually reading this right? Since when does a wife need a husbands approval to wear whatever the hell she wants? I thought this was 2017 not 1917.

 

[Tez3]

Sorry but am I actually reading this right? Since when does a wife need a husbands approval to wear whatever the hell she wants? I thought this was 2017 not 1917.

I'd worry too about the big guy dangling off her arm, the rest of us have designer handbags because we are allowed out on our own.

 

[CB Jones]

the big guy dangling off her arm

Wouldn't really consider 6' 200 lb as a big guy.

 

[jobo]

Sorry but am I actually reading this right? Since when does a wife need a husbands approval to wear whatever the hell she wants? I thought this was 2017 not 1917.

it was right after I had head butted a prospect for the local outlaw motorcycle club for oppenly suggesting a lewd act he fancied doing to her. That put my foot down. I was only saved by the fact the rest of the chapter new me and id set fire to their Harleys if they took it any further

 

[jobo]

Wouldn't really consider 6' 200 lb as a big guy.

no not in the states, but its quite large for England. Particularly if its 200 lb of bone and muscle ( with a few organ obviously)

 

[CB Jones]

no not in the states, but its quite large for England. Particularly if its 200 lb of bone and muscle ( with a few organ obviously)

Just busting your ****s a little

 

[Paul_D]

it was right after I had head butted a prospect for the local outlaw motorcycle club for oppenly suggesting a lewd act he fancied doing to her. That put my foot down. I was only saved by the fact the rest of the chapter new me and id set fire to their Harleys if they took it any further

Violent assault and arson. Either you are attempting to be humerous, or you are serious. I'm not an expert but I think the latter would classify you as a psychopath.