Self Defense Experience

[Brian R. VanCise]

When I assess an article or book or person claiming to teach police or law enforcement defensive tactics... the very first thing I look for is simply whether they actually show anyone wearing a gun belt (or address the issues). If they don't -- I pretty much dismiss the material. It doesn't address the realities of modern, US law enforcement. We wear gun belts; we carry guns and OC and batons and other stuff. Now, I'm not saying that every technique has to be demonstrated with a gun belt on -- but somewhere in the material, it has to be clear that the various issues of carrying a gun, wearing a gun belt, and body armor have been addressed. They do change how you move; they do restrict your options and flexibility some.

That is very, very important in your line of work. Gun Belts with baton, OC, hand cuffs, radio, etc. how it is laid out and more is very critical for a police officer. Mark's comment on protecting the spine and keeping that area free and clear is very important as well so that an officer can safely fall if needed. (anyone ever landing on something on their belt definately knows this) Addressing that during training is also essential for an LEO. It also sets things up differently in how you approach certain things. For an LEO or a civilian with a firearm on their waist you generally want to protect that and keep it unavailable for whomever you are dealing with. This can change what you will do as you do not want to inadvertantly present your tool to a criminal in a crucial moment. I find this very relevant when grappling and maintaining control of the side where your firearm is located. Real world self defense addresses this and that works not only for civilians who carry but also for LEO's as well.

 

[SKB]

If I'm working with someone and they claim to have 'been there done that' and then I notice there handcuffs are kept on the small of their back I quickly know they aint been there that much!!!!! it hurts like hell when you land on any gear fixed to your belt!

I don't think people can not teach if they hagve not been in a hundred or more street fights. I do think people who have never been in a fight should ask folks who have. Nobody was saying you can't teach. I think you will open up your perspective on the subject.

 

[kidswarrior]

This has come up a time or two at seminars and the response always surprises me.

How many of you have ever been in a "real" fight? Someone trying to hurt/kill you for whatever reason.

I've tried a few times to reconstruct how many, and seem to come up with three-four dozen. Not proud of any of em, and since I quit drinking years ago, the fighting seemed to stop too.

How many of you have had a knife/bladed weapon used against you?

Had an enraged teen threaten me with a sharpened pencil (and if you've never seen what these can do to soft tissue, please don't laugh), clenched in his fist hanging by his side. I took a step back to give myself room to counter if he attacked, and a security officer stepped between us. He hadn't seen the pencil, so I said something to him, and could see him tense. :uhyeah: Although he was wearing a vest, the shorter kid had perfect access to thigh, groin, or even up under the vest. Fortunately we talked him down.

If so, how many of you have been cut/stabbed?

Twice by accident, one required a doctor's visit (which I hate, and avoid if at all possible).

How many of you have had a gun pulled on you?

Not on me, but on three kids standing behind me. Fortunately, the shooters all knew me and since I'd helped them and their families over the years, were trying very hard not to hit me. They did put some holes in the baggy pant legs of one kid, though, as he was running away.

Have never shared most of this with anyone outside of need to know colleagues/LE, because I always thought people would think I was making it up. Don't know why I'm telling it now. Guess at some level the time just seemed right.

 

[kidswarrior]

Just went back and read the thread from end to beginning, and see I interrupted an important discussion. Apologies. :asian:

 

[Sukerkin]

No need to apologise for an on-topic post, my friend. It might've popped up in the midst of something else, as the actress said to the bishop, but it was still a valuable insight (and a further glimpse into the many reasons I wouldn't last an hour in your job) :rei:.

 

[kidswarrior]

as the actress said to the bishop...

:lol:

 

[Darth F.Takeda]

About half of the instructors in the Jujutsu system I train in are LEOs, my sensei taught Defensive Tactics as did I. I guess it's just become ingrained that I can't teach fluff because peoples lives often depend on what they've learned from me. Our Jujutsu is very bare-bones, take 'em down and keep 'em down, traditional Jujutsu.

When I'm talking to instructors with obvious skill and great attitudes but no practical experience, I always wonder how they would handle themselves in a life&death struggle. God knows I'm not endorsing the idea that students put themselves in harm's way but there is nothing for boosting your confidence like being the last man (or woman) standing after it's hit the fan.

Our Sensei was an LEO and it reenforced his faith in the Judo and Jujutsu he learned as a teen and promted him to pick up Jujutsu again shortly after.

You have a good point, but even with exp. one should research the exp. of others, because fights can be dynamic and subject to change.

Shugyo!

 

[meth18au]

Does he now? So the only people worth learning from are instructors who look like Alistor Moody? Gimme a break. That point leads into an off-topic argument about r33l str33t experience and that no one who hasn't been there can't teach effectively and we all know that's bunk.

Who is Alistor Moody? I wasn't trying to head the conversation in that direction, I think you take me the wrong way. I'm sure there are competent instructors whom have little to no experience. And I would trust a skinny chef- he may just be blessed with a fast metabolism

However I will stick by the point that experience does go a long way (in all areas of life- not just MA's and defence training). Sorry if I caused any offense Shesulsa.

 

[shesulsa]

Who is Alistor Moody? I wasn't trying to head the conversation in that direction, I think you take me the wrong way. I'm sure there are competent instructors whom have little to no experience. And I would trust a skinny chef- he may just be blessed with a fast metabolism

However I will stick by the point that experience does go a long way (in all areas of life- not just MA's and defence training). Sorry if I caused any offense Shesulsa.

Alistor Moody is a fictional character in the Harry Potter series - an "Auror" or a white ninja of the magic world - he has seen so many battles with bad guys he has scars, hunks of flesh and body parts missing, including an eye, a leg and part of his nose! :lol2:

Please understand me, I do NOT devalue experience ... however ... just because someone has been in street fights doesn't make them a good street fighter - someone who has been to tournaments doesn't make them a good tournament coach ... you get the drift, eh? And following the same logic, it doesn't necessarily take a person who has been in street brawls to know what works, to have great skills and much to offer; that's my point.

No offense taken, none intended in return.

 

[Adept]

Are sure we didn't work the same clubs??? All my bouncers and ID checkers have that problem..Me too

Heh, I think it's a job requirement.

 

[bmcgonag]

Been a cop for over 10 years now, and I like the other LEO's in here have had to defend myself on numerous occasions. It is true that kata may not prepare you to fight, but they do help in proper execution of technique without thought through the repetition of hard practice.

The same goes for one-steps, 3 steps and so on, and the same goes for sparring.

If you want to practice to prepare for reality, then you need to pad up (a lot) and get after it. Be ready for pain, and be ready for injury, because in the real world you seldom walk away unscathed.

i have been cut once...I took him down, I was sweaty, he was sweaty, and his hand got loose in the collision into the ground, and he cut my right shin before I got him under control.

I've only faced off against a firearm a couple of times, but I was behind cover, and my side arm was drawn. Nothing close range where he got the drop on me.

Best, and be careful out there

Brian

 

[meth18au]

Alistor Moody is a fictional character in the Harry Potter series - an "Auror" or a white ninja of the magic world - he has seen so many battles with bad guys he has scars, hunks of flesh and body parts missing, including an eye, a leg and part of his nose! :lol2:

Please understand me, I do NOT devalue experience ... however ... just because someone has been in street fights doesn't make them a good street fighter - someone who has been to tournaments doesn't make them a good tournament coach ... you get the drift, eh? And following the same logic, it doesn't necessarily take a person who has been in street brawls to know what works, to have great skills and much to offer; that's my point.

No offense taken, none intended in return.

I really do have to start getting into Harry Potter!!! It seems everybody knows about it these days except me- i gotta keep up with the times!!!


I see your stance. I concur that experience is not essential, but is extremely valuable. No offense taken by your point, and glad to not have caused any either