KempoGuy06
Grandmaster
I had my experience a couple months back where the guy pulled a knife.
Other than that Ice had to stop drunk peopel in a bar from fighting, mostly by words once of twice by some joint locks or chokes.
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Self Defense Experience
- Thread starter MarkBarlow
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Other than that Ice had to stop drunk peopel in a bar from fighting, mostly by words once of twice by some joint locks or chokes.
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meth18au
Blue Belt
Real fight- plenty of times. I was a bit of a knob when I was growing up, with knobby friends who did knobby things!!! Since I've grown up, a few times. It always seems to be in a club or out with mates. Usually not our fault. Just a lot of young knobs around starting fights. LOL.
Knife used against me once. Slashed on the back a few times, and stabbed once in back in that confrontation. A friend was getting hurt badly, stabbed multiple times. Another mate and myself helped out, I got him off the floor and ran him up the road back to a party to get him inside the house till cops came. At the front we got ambushed again. I covered his head and mine (could hear and feel glass smashing around me). They attacked my back- *******. I was really shocked after it happened- about an hour later I was shaky. It felt so surreal.
No guns pulled on me. Thank God. I wonder how I'd react. It'd be a **** scary experience.
Mark how come at seminars the answers suprise you? Do instructors etc tend to have little experience in these sorts of situations?
Kosho Gakkusei
Blue Belt
I grew up in a real bad neighborhood. Had quite a number of fights growing up. Found myself outnumbered on two occasions but managed to come out of both ok. One time a punk tried to stick a small knife in my eye but I avoided it.
_Don Flatt
_Don Flatt
I like this question. I often come across people who teach self defense but have never been in a fight. Not saying you should go seek them out! Just seems most people who have never tasted fear in their throat or have thanked "whoever" for getting them out of something come up with some of the most silly things which will not work in a "real fight". Mostly complicated, pretty moves which you do not have time for. Or my favorite are the one punch/kick/poke types who teach one strike will destory the other guy.
"Hit here like this and the bad guy will not walk for three years"
Yeah it can happen BUT I've been in or seen to many encounters to count on one thing devestating someone! I find people who have trained with this mind set get in trouble when something does happen for reals! And yes I have been in more then my share of REAL fights.
I've pulled knives and had knives pulled on me. Been stabbed in the leg and almost had a finger took off. Been shot at a few times and ran like hell when I seen the gun coming out another time! I think it would be a good idea for instructors who have no real world exsperiance to spend some time talking to those of us who have some. It could realy help!
"Hit here like this and the bad guy will not walk for three years"
Yeah it can happen BUT I've been in or seen to many encounters to count on one thing devestating someone! I find people who have trained with this mind set get in trouble when something does happen for reals! And yes I have been in more then my share of REAL fights.
I've pulled knives and had knives pulled on me. Been stabbed in the leg and almost had a finger took off. Been shot at a few times and ran like hell when I seen the gun coming out another time! I think it would be a good idea for instructors who have no real world exsperiance to spend some time talking to those of us who have some. It could realy help!
It's an eye-opening surprise to hear everyones experiences here, most especially Bydand, Carol and Shesulsa.
Like Carol (and others) said so clearly, the best techniques you have available to you are the ones that mean you don't get in a fight in the first place. They don't lead to glamourous tales of daring do but they are the option everyone should favour the most.
Anyhow, that's off topic, I just wanted to air my appreciation for people sharing their history's and profer my profound thanks that I've not had to go through a tenth of what some people have.
Like Carol (and others) said so clearly, the best techniques you have available to you are the ones that mean you don't get in a fight in the first place. They don't lead to glamourous tales of daring do but they are the option everyone should favour the most.
Anyhow, that's off topic, I just wanted to air my appreciation for people sharing their history's and profer my profound thanks that I've not had to go through a tenth of what some people have.
Believe me, I try, and do, as much as possible. Also, I usually manage to get opportunities to train with with them, too -- mostly because they know I am not looking for a "magic bullet" fix. So far every single conversation I've had with people who've been in serious fights begins and ends with -- avoid it if you can, if you can't, decide what you're gonna do, and don't stop until it's done.
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MarkBarlow
Purple Belt
About half of the instructors in the Jujutsu system I train in are LEOs, my sensei taught Defensive Tactics as did I. I guess it's just become ingrained that I can't teach fluff because peoples lives often depend on what they've learned from me. Our Jujutsu is very bare-bones, take 'em down and keep 'em down, traditional Jujutsu.
When I'm talking to instructors with obvious skill and great attitudes but no practical experience, I always wonder how they would handle themselves in a life&death struggle. God knows I'm not endorsing the idea that students put themselves in harm's way but there is nothing for boosting your confidence like being the last man (or woman) standing after it's hit the fan.
THAT'S the kind of training cadets should have in the BASIC academy..
Em MacIntosh
3rd Black Belt
I've had one of just about everything broken over my head, had a gun pulled on me on two seperate occasions and have been ambushed. I had to learn to get mean and dirty quick. I also had a lot of freinds who tended to get themselves into trouble. There's nothing like the real thing. It feels like natural selection and in that sense it isn't really personal anymore. So I do the best I can and they do the best they can. I've come out ahead due to a mix of luck, experience and a developed desire to survive. When called upon to survive how many of us know what giving your all really means?
And, unfortunately, until Basic Academy instructors stop chasing fads, and until the politicians get their hands out of the academy training requirements and leave them in the hands of experienced, working cops... it's not going to happen. The simple truth is that what a working cop needs is simple, effective, and often brutal. It's not pretty, and real deensive tactics don't look pretty to see.
Absolutely and officers need ongoing training so their Chief's of police should ante up for the cause! Since there is a high likelihood of physical contact ie. restraining, not involving a firearm then our Modern Police need constant training to prepare them for this!
meth18au
Blue Belt
That's a good thing you don't teach fluff. If all instructors removed fluff from their teachings, then the world would be a better place
Do you remember Van Damme in the original kickboxer movie? He was learning from that master, and the master got him drunk. Then he made the Thai guys in the pub turn on him to test his skills. LOL. It's kinda like that, just not in a movie. He he- that could be a new prerequisite to become an instructor- to get in a pub fight!!
I see where you come from and totally agree!!! If I was a cop I would definitely want real skills, that really work and have really been tested. Preferably by an instructor whom has real experience!!!
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MarkBarlow
Purple Belt
One of my knife instructors told me to never trust a skinny chef or someone teaching how to use a knife who doesn't have scars.
Does he now? So the only people worth learning from are instructors who look like Alistor Moody? Gimme a break. That point leads into an off-topic argument about r33l str33t experience and that no one who hasn't been there can't teach effectively and we all know that's bunk.
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MarkBarlow
Purple Belt
I agree with you to a point. As long as the curriculum is based on reality and the instructor is competent, the experience (or lack of it) of the instructor is less important. Too often, I hear instructors parroting their instructors who insisted that some particular technique never fails and will stop the biggest attacker. The problem is that no one tested the technique and it's practicality is taken on faith, not empirical evidence.
I've never been a Law Enforcement Officer and some cops view any defense tactics I teach as suspect. When I consider that their life may depend on what the learn in my class, I can't fault them for being skeptical.
Whether I like it or not, it's up to me to "prove" myself to them.
Absolutely. There are very few law enforcement agencies with any systemic, on-going defensive tactics training programs. At best, they offer occasional in-service "refreshers" and maybe updates. They'll crash everybody through something new, like active shooter training, but not review any of the fundamentals.Absolutely and officers need ongoing training so their Chief's of police should ante up for the cause! Since there is a high likelihood of physical contact ie. restraining, not involving a firearm then our Modern Police need constant training to prepare them for this!
When I assess an article or book or person claiming to teach police or law enforcement defensive tactics... the very first thing I look for is simply whether they actually show anyone wearing a gun belt (or address the issues). If they don't -- I pretty much dismiss the material. It doesn't address the realities of modern, US law enforcement. We wear gun belts; we carry guns and OC and batons and other stuff. Now, I'm not saying that every technique has to be demonstrated with a gun belt on -- but somewhere in the material, it has to be clear that the various issues of carrying a gun, wearing a gun belt, and body armor have been addressed. They do change how you move; they do restrict your options and flexibility some.
You don't need to have worked the streets as a cop to effectively train cops. Maurice Allen, a well known and highly respected judoka in my area, is also a very highly respected guest instructor at several local police academies. He teaches great stuff; he listens to the input from his students and the academy staffs, and adapts or changes the material as needed. But he's never been a cop, so far as I know.
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MarkBarlow
Purple Belt
Whenever I see a LEO in uniform, I check to see if they're wearing cuffs or some other item on their belt so that it lays against their spine. Since we cover very basic ukemi, I stress the importance of protecting their spine in case of a fall. It's a simple thing and probably not given much emphasis by most instructors but it's an easy and logical preventative step. Since much of the class I teach will be done while wearing their belt, it sends a flag up when I see LEO who have unwittingly put themselves in danger.
Yes it is too bad that more departments do not have on-going quarterly training that meets the needs of their officers. It really is a shame. In my local there is only one department around that does this and they are the best trained officers in the area for obvious reasons. They also have a reserve officer program and are heavily invested in their training. Their Training Officer also trains with me and wants to get IRT Tactical Grappling regularly into their training but that may or may not happen based on trying to spread the cost over multiple departments.
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