Seattle Cop murdered..suspect caught and shot.

[FierySquidFace]

I hear what you're saying, Steve, and in the most part, I agree. Any murder, any accidental homicide even, is a tragedy, especially for the victim's loved ones, and all the victims and their families deserve recognition and compassion.

Why do we give a cop's or firefighter's family special attention? Because the cop accepted the responsibility of running toward danger. I think in some way, it's an unwritten social contract; something like a bribe or a way to ease some sort of survivor's guilt. Kind of like how someone might suddenly donate to the March of Dimes when they're wife is pregnant, or to the local Children's Hospital when they have kids. Kind of a "maybe if I give some money, my family will be safe." I don't know.

I do know it's comforting in a way to know that, between insurance and several programs, if some ******* murders me on-the-job, my family will be taken care, my kid'll be able to go to college... Same way it means something to me to know that my colleagues will take care me & my family if I'm seriously hurt on the job. Is it fair that a cop's family gets special attention? No. But it's a fact of life that it happens.

another very good point.

 

[Steve]

I hear what you're saying, Steve, and in the most part, I agree. Any murder, any accidental homicide even, is a tragedy, especially for the victim's loved ones, and all the victims and their families deserve recognition and compassion.

Why do we give a cop's or firefighter's family special attention? Because the cop accepted the responsibility of running toward danger. I think in some way, it's an unwritten social contract; something like a bribe or a way to ease some sort of survivor's guilt. Kind of like how someone might suddenly donate to the March of Dimes when they're wife is pregnant, or to the local Children's Hospital when they have kids. Kind of a "maybe if I give some money, my family will be safe." I don't know.

I do know it's comforting in a way to know that, between insurance and several programs, if some ******* murders me on-the-job, my family will be taken care, my kid'll be able to go to college... Same way it means something to me to know that my colleagues will take care me & my family if I'm seriously hurt on the job. Is it fair that a cop's family gets special attention? No. But it's a fact of life that it happens.

Thanks! I really appreciate your reply.

 

[Hudson69]

I think it's telling that you two, hudson and archangel, are focusing on a lack of reverence, presuming the worst of me. You guys have a chip on your shoulder and appear to me to be unwilling to read anythiing that even hints at complete disagreement with your point.

What I have suggested is that there would be much good done if EVERY good person who is murdered in cold blood could receive such reverence, and the families such generous support from the community. I have never suggested that a slain officer or soldier is unimportant or not worth the time to pause and respect their funerals or place flowers at their memorial. I don't begrudge the surviving family the assistance from the community. i think that's grerat. I have simply tried to suggest that the murder of an honest gas station clerk is equally important. Both contribute to society. Both families are in need of help.

You are right I did not fully read your earlier statement and do not want to come off as having a chip but am having a hard time getting my point across so I do apologize.

I think what I trying to say is that any murder of a good person is tragic and surviving family should have resources made available to them. But I thnk that Police, Fire, EMT's and members of our esteemed Military receive higher/greater accolades is because of the way they died; serving society in a dangerous profession. In response a society is more likely to have a greater outpouring and provide assistance above and beyond what it normally does for the "average" citizen.

When a 7-11 clerk is shot during a robbery only his friends and family grieve, friends included the daily people he/she came in contact with but on a societal whole there is lack of empathy. When an Officer dies (especially violently and/or heroically) everyone seems to know a police officer, deputy sheriff, marshall, agent and probably had one somewhere in his/her family. And despite the fact that it only takes a small percentage of an agency to put a black mark on the entire agency for doing something illegal/immoral/stupid/or all of the above; most honest citizens know of at least a story about how a local LEO found a lost child, stopped a robbery, found a murderer, put an end to a meth lab or something else, something the average citizen would not do and possibly seek to avoid.

Society needs its heroes, honoring the fallen members of the thin blue line is one way of letting society know it still has them.

Does that make more sense? Again no chipped shoulders here and no antagonistic feelings meant.

 

[Archangel M]

I really could personally care less if someone on the net outright said "cops don't deserve all the ceremony when they die" (I know that's not what you are saying Steve). Free to think/say what you want.

I was just commenting on the fact that it seems like everytime I see, start or post to a thread about a cops murder...somehow...someone has to take the "why do you deserve special treatment", or the "7-11 Clerks have a more dangerous job" shot.

Note how this thread has been turned into exactly that topic.

 

[Steve]

You are right I did not fully read your earlier statement and do not want to come off as having a chip but am having a hard time getting my point across so I do apologize.

I think what I trying to say is that any murder of a good person is tragic and surviving family should have resources made available to them. But I thnk that Police, Fire, EMT's and members of our esteemed Military receive higher/greater accolades is because of the way they died; serving society in a dangerous profession. In response a society is more likely to have a greater outpouring and provide assistance above and beyond what it normally does for the "average" citizen.

When a 7-11 clerk is shot during a robbery only his friends and family grieve, friends included the daily people he/she came in contact with but on a societal whole there is lack of empathy. When an Officer dies (especially violently and/or heroically) everyone seems to know a police officer, deputy sheriff, marshall, agent and probably had one somewhere in his/her family. And despite the fact that it only takes a small percentage of an agency to put a black mark on the entire agency for doing something illegal/immoral/stupid/or all of the above; most honest citizens know of at least a story about how a local LEO found a lost child, stopped a robbery, found a murderer, put an end to a meth lab or something else, something the average citizen would not do and possibly seek to avoid.

Society needs its heroes, honoring the fallen members of the thin blue line is one way of letting society know it still has them.

Does that make more sense? Again no chipped shoulders here and no antagonistic feelings meant.

Thanks, Hudson. I was focusing more on the equivalent damage to the surviving families, and how simply by virtue of position, some are better taken care of. In our lives, most law abiding citizens spend a lot more time interacting with convenience store clerks than cops.

 

[Steve]

I really could personally care less if someone on the net outright said "cops don't deserve all the ceremony when they die" (I know that's not what you are saying Steve). Free to think/say what you want.

I was just commenting on the fact that it seems like everytime I see, start or post to a thread about a cops murder...somehow...someone has to take the "why do you deserve special treatment", or the "7-11 Clerks have a more dangerous job" shot.

Note how this thread has been turned into exactly that topic.

Poor you. Cops are so misunderstood.

It's telling that the main points you would take are "why do you deserve special treatment" and "7-11 Clerks have a more dangerous job" out of my posts. That, in my opinion, has less to do with what I actually wrote than with your own hangups.

 

[grydth]

While the lives of all murder victims are important, and their families are often not taken care of that well, today's news of 4 police officers shot illustrates the basis of the police viewpoint here.

This was an ambush killing of 4 officers who never had a chance. Nobody else, not even the counter clerk, was targeted. Same in the Seattle rampage. I can see giving the officers killed at least a ceremony and family survivors' benefits.... they have to deal with homicidal maniacs as part of their job; the rest of us mostly deal with it through a key board.

Oh, and there's never a debate on reasonable force when its the police who get shot.

 

[Archangel M]

WTF is going on in Washington State?

I have nothing but black and murderous anger right now. What I would like to say would not be fitting for an LEO. I just hope this scumbag is found soon...and I don't care what condition he is found in.

 

[Steve]

WTF is going on in Washington State?

I have nothing but black and murderous anger right now. What I would like to say would not be fitting for an LEO. I just hope this scumbag is found soon...and I don't care what condition he is found in.

This is ongoing. According to the local news on the way in to work today, he's holed up in a house, surrounded. They believe that he is injured, and could be dead from those injuries. Last I heard, they are sending in a robot to see what's what.

 

[Steve]

Okay. Guy is still at large. http://www.kirotv.com/news/21760096/detail.html

 

[Archangel M]

That this human piece of garbage was even on the street is a travesty. 11 years of a 95 year sentence. A pardon by Huckabee. Our court system is in serious disrepair.

 

[grydth]

That this human piece of garbage was even on the street is a travesty. 11 years of a 95 year sentence. A pardon by Huckabee. Our court system is in serious disrepair.

Yes, it is, and it highlights how ineffective our (in)justice system has become. It is not doing its basic job, which is keeping society safe. Again and again this monster was arrested and sentenced.... yet he was freed so often that one might think there was some urgent national need that he be back on the streets asap. There is no reason whatsoever for this individual to have been out on the street.

The problem is not due to one political party alone. Remember Presidential candidate Michael Dukakis was slammed in ads for furloughing prisoner Willie Horton, who went on to commit further heinous crimes. Well, the killer in question here was freed by Conservative darling Mike Huckabee back when he was Governor.

Prison sentences should be finite... and the time stated should be served. Bail needs to be higher... and more often, denied. Parole boards have done more damage to our society than Osama bin Laden could ever dream of doing - yet they are in no way accountable for their damnable decisions.... hey, how about if those were elected positions instead of political appointments?

 

[Archangel M]

One scumbag DRT.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125966812323771121.html

 

[MJS]

I'm glad to see this huge piece of human **** off the streets. While part of me is glad they shot him, part of me wishes that he didn't get off that easy. Not that being shot to death is getting off easy, but I think the thought of him rotting in a prison cell, never to see the light of day, is a hell of alot more tolling on the mind, as well as the body.

Either way, as I said, one less piece of scum bag **** off the streets! My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the slain officers. Additionally, I'd also like to say Thanks to all of the LEOs here for the job that you do every day. As we can see, anytime you put that uniform on, you're a walking target. Nothing irks me more, than to read some posts by certain people, as well as comments in the papers, about LEOs. I'd be willing to bet that 99% of the armchair QBs, have ZERO idea as to what being a cop is like.

Enough said on that. God bless and be safe out there.:asian:

On another note, it amazes me, as to how or why a Gov. would grant a **** bag like this, freedom. WTF! Is out system that ****ed? Apparently so. IMO, nobody except a judge should be allowed that ability.

 

[cdunn]

Enough said on that. God bless and be safe out there.:asian:

On another note, it amazes me, as to how or why a Gov. would grant a **** bag like this, freedom. WTF! Is out system that ****ed? Apparently so. IMO, nobody except a judge should be allowed that ability.

Mr. Huckabee, it would appear, has a habit of releasing prisoners after preachers tell him that the prisoner has made a sincere confession of being 'born again'. A habit fully in line with the image he presents. The system is not broken, we are merely reaping the fruit that comes of the seed of the voter's choices.

 

[Twin Fist]

I put those first who everyday put themselves last

that means in my world, cops and soldiers ARE worth more than the scumbags that kill them.

 

[Steve]

I put those first who everyday put themselves last

that means in my world, cops and soldiers ARE worth more than the scumbags that kill them.

At the risk of being overly defensive, there have been a couple of comments that make me wonder if they're pointed at me. If so, please make it clear, because I'd be offended if someone suggested to me that I value the lives of murderers as much or more than the lives of cops. And if you have that impression of me, or the impression that I don't like cops or honor their fallen, I haven't done a very good job of explaining myself. If you disagree with something I've written, I'd appreciate it if you'd speak plainly.

 

[MJS]

Mr. Huckabee, it would appear, has a habit of releasing prisoners after preachers tell him that the prisoner has made a sincere confession of being 'born again'. A habit fully in line with the image he presents. The system is not broken, we are merely reaping the fruit that comes of the seed of the voter's choices.

Understood. I guess my point is, if I had a dollar for all those that claim to be reformed, are born again, etc., I'd be a rich, rich man. Who cares what a preacher says to the gov....I doubt the gov or any other non related LE person, has access to someones criminal records, and if they do, why do they, but the point is, given this guys long record, there should be nothing he could say, that would warrant his release. This guy is a first class POS, who IIRC, has a record dating back to his teens. That being said, for anyone to think he's reformed, needs their head examined, and that goes for the preacher and the gov.

 

[cdunn]

Understood. I guess my point is, if I had a dollar for all those that claim to be reformed, are born again, etc., I'd be a rich, rich man. Who cares what a preacher says to the gov....I doubt the gov or any other non related LE person, has access to someones criminal records, and if they do, why do they, but the point is, given this guys long record, there should be nothing he could say, that would warrant his release. This guy is a first class POS, who IIRC, has a record dating back to his teens. That being said, for anyone to think he's reformed, needs their head examined, and that goes for the preacher and the gov.

Criminal history is a part of the application for clemency in AR. In addition, a reccomendation is made by the parole board. Every possible red flag was raised. Huckabee was certainly given the opportunity to learn that this man was going to be a further problem.

The system exists specifically so that gross miscarriage of justice can be addressed. Huckabee is solely responsible for creating the opportunity for further failure. However, there were at least three major points at which this tragedy could have been prevented, if not more: every one of them needs to be addressed.

Huckabee should not have commuted the first sentence to parole. The evidence was there that he was a violent man with little to no control over the impulse to violence.

When he was detained for parole violation, the new crimes should have been immediately prosecuted, rather than chucked. I do not know if his commuted sentence was factored into his eligibility for his second parole. If it was not, it should have been.

When he was detained in Washington for rape, his criminal history should have made him ineligable for bail: Violence against authority was a pattern. Bail is, at best, a type of restraint against flight risk.

Yet, with everything said: Hucklebee permitted the start of the chain of failures.

 

[TKDHomeSchooler]

Yet, with everything said: Hucklebee permitted the start of the chain of failures.

It is not totally his fault, he had a unanimous vote by the parole board to release him.