Every fight is potentially a life-or-death event

[Gerry Seymour]

he " crawled( like a mangey dog) for twenty years, before finally coming to the,conclusion that manhood involved fighting, sometimes. I'm not sure how that supports bills suggestion that every one should spend a life time crawling (lower than a snakes belly) to every passing bully,
its one of the law of the universe that sooner or later the bully will pick on the wron g person, you can't dennie Karma its end goal

Epic strawman. At no point did Bill imply or state that people should "spend a life time crawling (lower than a snakes belly)" to anyone, much less "every passing bully".

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm fascinated by the ignore function and the fact that people just can't ignore you, they have to tell you that they are putting you on ignore, then take you off ignore so that they can tell you that they are putting you on again, they seem to think that you care.

in your case, you have just posted ,to telling me that you might ignore me in the,future rather than just ignore me ?????,

there is a major sense of humour issue with some on this forum , there's not much I can do about that,

Actually, most people tell others when they put them on ignore out of courtesy, so the other party knows they won't get a reply.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You post that second bit as if I care. You are 'of the herd' in more than just name. I am not.

The sort of guy that would post an entire Wikipedia page in response to a self evident song reference just to pedantically correct a grammatical error isn't the sort I would miss anyway.

Did you miss that the "grammatical error" was a complete reversal of the moral of the song?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The "delayed death touch." Along with bruising someone's heart and it taking about 6 months for them to have a heart attack, rupturing someone's spleen and they slowly fatally bleed internally. They didn't have the medical care and technology we currently have.

Most of it had to be superstitious nonsense though. And it's highly doubtful anyone could intentionally kill someone this way (delayed death touch) if they tried. You'd need an exact force on an exact angle for it to intentionally work.

Most likely some (maybe most) of it was this sort of delayed death and the actor used that to build their reputation by claiming they could teach it. They may even have believed it, themselves.

 

[Steve]

It's about reasonable risk. I could die driving my car, but not getting in a car has a HUGE downside from where I live (no work, groceries, etc.). What's the downside to not getting in the fight? If the downside is big, take the risk. If the downside is someone will think you're a wuss, who cares?

It's just not true that every fight is life or death. Even when you're being mugged, raped or assaulted. The goal of a very, very rare few crimes is homicide. So, sure. Avoiding a fight when you can is good sense. But saying you will only fight if it's kill or be killed is overly dramatic. Choosing to fight or not to fight is very contextual, and can be somewhere between frivolous and deadly.

 

[drop bear]

That's a misquote of The Gambler. It actually says, "you don't have to fight to be a man" and, "sometimes you have to fight when you're a man." Fighting doesn't make you a man.

But you do have to fight for your right to party.

 

[drop bear]

I see your point, but I don't agree with the premise. I don't think making this argument (that fighting is inherently high-risk, and so should be avoided unless the risk accompanying avoidance is high) reduces confidence in fighting. I think it helps avoid the over-confidence I see in some martial artists (myself, included, at one point back in my 20's) who come to believe they can handle situations without risk.

I would be surprised if focusing on risk helps a person achieve their task. When we corner guys in the ring we tend to avoid topics like, you could be crippled or killed, and you don't have to do this.

It wasn't a useful thought going in to street fights for me.

And you have expressed issues in being able to pull the trigger on people.

And well if we go back to your rock climbing you probably don't remind people that they can fall to their death unless you enjoy watching them stuck to a cliff face.

But I am trying to find any psychology that suggests the correct method to prepare people to take risks.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's just not true that every fight is life or death. Even when you're being mugged, raped or assaulted. The goal of a very, very rare few crimes is homicide. So, sure. Avoiding a fight when you can is good sense. But saying you will only fight if it's kill or be killed is overly dramatic. Choosing to fight or not to fight is very contextual, and can be somewhere between frivolous and deadly.

The point of the OP is that even those not intending to be life-or-death can become such. And in the risk assessment, it's a good idea to keep that in mind. You have to evaluate the risk of fighting (including the remote, but real, chance of death) against the risk of not fighting. I definitely agree with your last statement - every word.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But you do have to fight for your right to party.

Well, yeah. (Now I have to go put on some Sister)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I would be surprised if focusing on risk helps a person achieve their task. When we corner guys in the ring we tend to avoid topics like, you could be crippled or killed, and you don't have to do this.

It wasn't a useful thought going in to street fights for me.

And you have expressed issues in being able to pull the trigger on people.

And well if we go back to your rock climbing you probably don't remind people that they can fall to their death unless you enjoy watching them stuck to a cliff face.

But I am trying to find any psychology that suggests the correct method to prepare people to take risks.

I'm not sure where you got that I've expressed issues on pulling the trigger. I don't like hurting people, unless they make it necessary. Period. And, actually, my dad often reminded me of the risks of not tying the knots properly, not communicating well with climbing partners, etc. It kept me paying attention to details that matter, just as similar warnings did in my MA training.

 

[JR 137]

Well, yeah. (Now I have to go put on some Sister)

It's the Beastie Boys, but we'll forgive you.

 

[Steve]

The point of the OP is that even those not intending to be life-or-death can become such. And in the risk assessment, it's a good idea to keep that in mind. You have to evaluate the risk of fighting (including the remote, but real, chance of death) against the risk of not fighting. I definitely agree with your last statement - every word.

And again, how is that different from anything else in life? Which was my first post... Driving a car is a calculated risk, as is everything else.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't like hurting people, unless they make it necessary.

In this thread, the discussion of "侠 (Xia) - help the weaker" is not mentioned. Without it, the MA training is meaningless.

I still remember my teacher told me, "If you don't have a good reason to fight and you fight, I'll beat you up when I find out. Also if you have a good reason to fight but you didn't fight, I'll still beat you up when I find out".

When a guy tries to drag a girl into his car and that girl is screaming for help. There are no cops around. All people on the street just look with cold heart. You can

- help that girl and put your life in risk.
- pretend nothing has happened and walk away.

You don't need to hurt someone to protect yourself. You do need to hurt someone to protect others. That others can be a stranger, your friend, your wife, your daughter, or ...

 

[Martial D]

But you do have to fight for your right to party.

No no, you've reversed the moral of the song. Let me dig up and copy pasta a 2000 word Wikipedia article to show how wrong you are.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It's about reasonable risk. I could die driving my car, but not getting in a car has a HUGE downside from where I live (no work, groceries, etc.). What's the downside to not getting in the fight? If the downside is big, take the risk. If the downside is someone will think you're a wuss, who cares?

Depending on the age and where you are, being considered a wuss could be a huge downside. It may have the potential to guarantee that the harassment will not only continue but it will also get worse, such is the case with bullying these days. Sometimes it's better to may Bullying an expensive practice. Every time someone bullies me, they earn a punch in the face. From there the bully can determine how many "frequent flier miles" on bully airlines he wants to earn. I'm pretty sure that somewhere down the line the bully isn't going to see that other kid as a destination.

I don't know how adult bullying is these days, but my approach has always been. "Come get some, if you want to" and " he must have not cared about it to much because he kept walking." The first one has the logic of, if someone is willing to go all out to the end, then maybe it's not worth messing with that guy. The other one has the logic of, if someone doesn't care enough about harassing to the point where they want to hit me, then I'll let it go and will be more than happy to walk away.

The one thing I don't ever want to appear is weak. The appearance of weakness attracts predators

 

[drop bear]

I'm not sure where you got that I've expressed issues on pulling the trigger. I don't like hurting people, unless they make it necessary. Period. And, actually, my dad often reminded me of the risks of not tying the knots properly, not communicating well with climbing partners, etc. It kept me paying attention to details that matter, just as similar warnings did in my MA training.

Your issues with training competitively. Or training with risk of someone getting hurt.

 

[drop bear]

Depending on the age and where you are, being considered a wuss could be a huge downside. It may have the potential to guarantee that the harassment will not only continue but it will also get worse, such is the case with bullying these days. Sometimes it's better to may Bullying an expensive practice. Every time someone bullies me, they earn a punch in the face. From there the bully can determine how many "frequent flier miles" on bully airlines he wants to earn. I'm pretty sure that somewhere down the line the bully isn't going to see that other kid as a destination.

I don't know how adult bullying is these days, but my approach has always been. "Come get some, if you want to" and " he must have not cared about it to much because he kept walking." The first one has the logic of, if someone is willing to go all out to the end, then maybe it's not worth messing with that guy. The other one has the logic of, if someone doesn't care enough about harassing to the point where they want to hit me, then I'll let it go and will be more than happy to walk away.

The one thing I don't ever want to appear is weak. The appearance of weakness attracts predators

I am middle of the road on this. I will back down if I can get away with it. But I will act before I come to the end of my tether.

The point still being here is we are making a conscious decision rather than having the decision forced on us either through anger or fear.

 

[jobo]

That's a misquote of The Gambler. It actually says, "you don't have to fight to be a man" and, "sometimes you have to fight when you're a man." Fighting doesn't make you a man.

if your going to ell me I'm incorrect, at least be correct yourself

"its coward of the county"

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's the Beastie Boys, but we'll forgive you.

Yeah, but the chain of consciousness always leads me right to Sister on that one. Even when I hear the actual song, I gotta hear We're Not Gonna Take It.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And again, how is that different from anything else in life? Which was my first post... Driving a car is a calculated risk, as is everything else.

It's not different from anything else. That was my point. If driving were reasonably high risk and pretty low reward (or low alternative risk), I'd avoid it, too.