dancingalone
Grandmaster
I think your initial and subsequent posts are ill-guided, and for the sake of peace on this board, we should leave it at that and just let the topic drop.
SD/Traditional TKD and Sport Training!!!
- Thread starter Gorilla
- Start date
I think your initial and subsequent posts are ill-guided, and for the sake of peace on this board, we should leave it at that and just let the topic drop.
You'd have to dig through the threads here. There was some pretty strong mudslinging in both directions from a small group of posters.
The biggest gripe that most traditional folks have with the WTF sport is that it does not really resemble any form of taekwondo. It is not that it is bad, but that it really is not, on a technical level, related to Kukki TKD any longer. It is so specialized and so different that it really deserves its own name.
Not a dig at the sport; I happen to enjoy it.
Daniel
I have not been one of them! I don't think that any of the current posters who do sport tkd have either! I respect SD and would not support anyone who would ridicule it.
I agree with your 2nd point
What should the name be?
I don't agree. I can have a civil discussion. What is wrong with healthy debate. It can be entertaining and on occasion good things come from it.
My posts have been civil.
Don't be afraid! I think that we can have a debate on a controversial topic.
d1jinx
Master Black Belt
reqardless of if its Traditional or olympic/sport, cardio training is tough on ANYONE who isnt use to doing it. I think that should be the main point.
How each style physically trains, not for what, but how, is the real topic.
who cares if its for sport or SD. The best self defense is to outrun your attacker.... so does anyone require your students to run?
About once a month, we run 2miles on the track. AND I HATE RUNNING.
If we had access to a pool, that would be a requirement too.
How each style physically trains, not for what, but how, is the real topic.
who cares if its for sport or SD. The best self defense is to outrun your attacker.... so does anyone require your students to run?
About once a month, we run 2miles on the track. AND I HATE RUNNING.
If we had access to a pool, that would be a requirement too.
dancingalone
Grandmaster
I can be too. The problem is that others can't be so detached from something they obviously love and it always leads to some feathers being ruffled and then the moderators have to come down and clean things up.
Besides, aren't you bored of the sport vs. traditional debates? One can only say the same things over and over again so many times you know. You can search for the ample threads if you want to revisit it.
I'll say it's funny how a sport vs. traditional thread always draws a few hundred views at least, but when someone tries to discuss anything serious about technique, the popularity is much less.
Those who crossed over to the comp team; did they have an attitude that they could 'just do it' or did they simply decide to try it out and were not as good at it as those who had been on the team for a while? Which might I add should not have been a surprise to anyone.
If the latter, then you do them and your school a disservice in presenting it the way that you did in the above quote.
Also, are there tryouts for the competition team or do the instructors just let anyone in who wishes to participate?
See my previous post regarding this.
One of the beauties of taekwondo is that it is so multifaceted that it has more than just sport, self defense, or fitness.
Daniel
Civil, but baiting. If I were intending to begin a healthy debate, I would not have opened it up with such a cocky op. Not to mention the plethora of threads already existing on this topic, any number of which could have been revisited, and most of the recent ones you have been involved with.
Sorry, but your OP comes off as poking at individuals in threads you have participated in previously.
If you think that Dancing is afraid of debate on a controversial topic, you don't know Dancing very well.
Daniel
JWLuiza
Black Belt
I know I love a good argument, but in my old age I'm finding more and more it becomes less important what other people do. But internet forums are a breeding ground for "X vs. Y" threads. But those are SOOOOO uninformative.
Just think of how awesome Reese's Pieces or Peanut Butter Cups are.
Anyway, I think I'll take this thread as a challenge to get better cardio. I know it can only help me!
Just think of how awesome Reese's Pieces or Peanut Butter Cups are.
Anyway, I think I'll take this thread as a challenge to get better cardio. I know it can only help me!
They came in off the streets (Black Belts). They are from other schools and they went to the US Open(to watch). They watch the fights. Think that Sport TKD is Easy and want to train with us "it can't be that hard". We just had one come back for the second week!!! We are very happy about this. He is very unusual. We usually have 5-10 people do this every year.
So were they put into training with the competition team right away? You indicated that they came over to train with the comp team. Were they allowed to actually train with the comp team or join it?
That is why I asked about the policy for getting onto the comp team. Guys coming in off of the street should be evaluated in normal classes to determine if they should even be wearing a black belt and then trained accordingly.
This probably is not the case, but from your post, it sounds like they came in and signed up and were training with the comp team from day one.
So the question that then begs to be asked is why they were showing up at your door to begin with? I train at a school and hold a black belt. Why would I head down the road to another school that teaches the same art when I already have commitments where I am?
What answers come to mind lead me to the conclusion that they are not a good indicator of quality students from an SD school, while I can only assume that your comp team is the best of your sport school.
Daniel
That is why I asked about the policy for getting onto the comp team. Guys coming in off of the street should be evaluated in normal classes to determine if they should even be wearing a black belt and then trained accordingly.
This probably is not the case, but from your post, it sounds like they came in and signed up and were training with the comp team from day one.
So the question that then begs to be asked is why they were showing up at your door to begin with? I train at a school and hold a black belt. Why would I head down the road to another school that teaches the same art when I already have commitments where I am?
What answers come to mind lead me to the conclusion that they are not a good indicator of quality students from an SD school, while I can only assume that your comp team is the best of your sport school.
Daniel
We don't have Normal Classes! We are a Comp Team Only. We don't have a sign up process you come you train if you make it you start paying it is very informal. We get students by word of mouth and referrals from other instructors. If the student stays they must get the OK from their instructor to train with us. The 5 people that came this time all came from the US Open. They watched our students fight discovered that we are from Vegas got our location and showed up. Of the 5... 1 has stayed for a second week...we hope he sticks seems to be a nice guy.
Mostly the people that stay are referrals from other instructors.
Our team seems to always be at about 20 athletes. Ranging from National Team Members to State level athletes.
What is the name of your school.
We are a Comp Team only. We don't have the time to ease people in. We let people know up front most don't believe it. Our team is only willing to grow with people who are totally committed. It is a great environment for those who want to work very hard and excel.
Then your thread is based on a false premise. You don't train anybody. Not up from beginner at least. You aren't a school. You don't teach. You don't have instructors, not in the sense that a regular studio does. You have coaches (you may call them 'master' or instructor, but on a team, a coach is really their function, regardless of title). The goal of a competition team is to win competitions, not teach, again, at least not in the same sense that a regular studio does.
Blackbelts off the street are not a fair representation of SD training. Who's to say that they were even really black belts? And if so, who's to say that they were not from some McDojo that claims to do SD but really is just a glorified after-school program? And your team is hardly representative of the typical KKW school that does WTF sparring and how they train.
As the details come out, it becomes clear that the healthy debate you mentioned is not what you were really after. You presented the details in a less than up front way in your op for the sole purpose of poking at one member or a small group of members on this site.
And that, sir is trolling.
Daniel
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Manny
Senior Master
You'd have to dig through the threads here. There was some pretty strong mudslinging in both directions from a small group of posters.
The biggest gripe that most traditional folks have with the WTF sport is that it does not really resemble any form of taekwondo. It is not that it is bad, but that it really is not, on a technical level, related to Kukki TKD any longer. It is so specialized and so different that it really deserves its own name.
Not a dig at the sport; I happen to enjoy it.
Daniel
I think there is something about this, I think WTF TKD would be called WTF Tae Kwon Do or Sport Tae Kwon Do and The Martial TKD would be called TKD Kukiwon or Traditional TKD.
If I had my own dojang it will be advertized as Traditional TKD cause this is the thing I want to teach, yes WTF TKD can be a small part of the curriculum but my dojang would have MA/SD aproach mostly.
Manny
I never said that we were a school. I have always said that we were a comp team. I did not mislead anyone.
Fair enough, though you did not say at the outset that you are a team only; without qualification from you or knowing about your team (I am sure Terry does because he is very informed and connected in the athletics end of things) it is only natural to assume that you were a school with a competition team. You are, to my knowledge, the only person posting on this subject who is apparently not connected to a school. The fact that you have no tryouts confuses the issue further.
Even so, it is still a disingenuous comparison and it was still done for the sole purpose of poking another member or members. Nor am I the only one to make that observation. That is why I said that what you were doing amounts to trolling.
I suppose I could respond to your OP by saying that you should see how long your comp team guy lasts against a guy from a hard core SD school with minimal rules and full contact, but I think that that would be a silly and childish response.
The whole contention of the SD oriented posters who dislike the sport is that sport taekwondo is not self defense, and in the case of the WTF rule set, really bears no resemblance to the Kukki taekwondo that it is connected to. This is almost never addressed by the folks who press the sport on the board here.
Seeing as healthy debate is what you said you are after, how do you address this?
Daniel
Even so, it is still a disingenuous comparison and it was still done for the sole purpose of poking another member or members. Nor am I the only one to make that observation. That is why I said that what you were doing amounts to trolling.
I suppose I could respond to your OP by saying that you should see how long your comp team guy lasts against a guy from a hard core SD school with minimal rules and full contact, but I think that that would be a silly and childish response.
The whole contention of the SD oriented posters who dislike the sport is that sport taekwondo is not self defense, and in the case of the WTF rule set, really bears no resemblance to the Kukki taekwondo that it is connected to. This is almost never addressed by the folks who press the sport on the board here.
Seeing as healthy debate is what you said you are after, how do you address this?
Daniel
1. I suppose I could respond to your OP by saying that you should see how long your comp team guy lasts against a guy from a hard core SD school with minimal rules and full contact, but I think that that would be a silly and childish response.
2. The whole contention of the SD oriented posters who dislike the sport is that sport taekwondo is not self defense, and in the case of the WTF rule set, really bears no resemblance to the Kukki taekwondo that it is connected to. This is almost never addressed by the folks who press the sport on the board here.
Seeing as healthy debate is what you said you are after, how do you address this?
My response
1. Some would do well others not so well. We do some SD training but it is limited. Most of our students come from tough backgrounds so they learned to fight out of need.
2. I agree with you! Most of what is done in sport tkd is not applicable in SD. The cardio it develops and the ability to adjust to an attacker can be of help. I have said this many times in multiple posts. Sport TKD and SD are for the most part Apples and Oranges. I respect both.
I hope that you will give me the benefit of the doubt in the future.
2. The whole contention of the SD oriented posters who dislike the sport is that sport taekwondo is not self defense, and in the case of the WTF rule set, really bears no resemblance to the Kukki taekwondo that it is connected to. This is almost never addressed by the folks who press the sport on the board here.
Seeing as healthy debate is what you said you are after, how do you address this?
My response
1. Some would do well others not so well. We do some SD training but it is limited. Most of our students come from tough backgrounds so they learned to fight out of need.
2. I agree with you! Most of what is done in sport tkd is not applicable in SD. The cardio it develops and the ability to adjust to an attacker can be of help. I have said this many times in multiple posts. Sport TKD and SD are for the most part Apples and Oranges. I respect both.
I hope that you will give me the benefit of the doubt in the future.
Not gas on fire, but this definitely has some truth to it.
I would not go so far as to say 'period', though I would say that being out of shape will definitely hamper one's ability to fight.
The degree to which the person is out of shape will determine the degree to which it hampers them, as well as how 'in shape' they were before losing that tone.
I have no doubt that Seagal can still fight. But he is also out of shape and certainly would fight better if he were in shape.
Daniel
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