School Spankings

[Twin Fist]

There are two ways to look at the purpose of school:

To only be a place of education

To produce better citizens.

in my day, it was the latter. We had morality based teachings, there was a difference between good and bad,right and wrong, and if you broke the rules, there was punishment, up to and including getting licks

it worked

what they are doing now clearly doesnt work

 

[celtic_crippler]

There are two ways to look at the purpose of school:

To only be a place of education

To produce better citizens.

I look at them as one and the same...especially in a society that is supposed to be a republic/democracy.

It's essential to that type of societies survival!

in my day, it was the latter. We had morality based teachings, there was a difference between good and bad,right and wrong, and if you broke the rules, there was punishment, up to and including getting licks

it worked

what they are doing now clearly doesnt work

Amen to that brother!

 

[stickarts]

I agree that children need to learn to value education and that it should start at home. There are lots and lots of values that children need to learn, and they need to start at home.

Does the school system your children attend have a policy that allows spanking?

No. I am fortunate that the elementary school my daughter attends has a great program, some great teachers, and they do a great job communicating anytime there is a problem. Its the high school I am worried about. We will look at private schools at that time.

 

[Big Don]

Its the high school I am worried about. We will look at private schools at that time.

The inexpensive Private HS here (the wilds of Central CA) is $475 a month...
The one out in the sticks is $750 + you supply the books...

 

[Kacey]

I got exactly one paddling from a teacher when I was in elementary school (back in the dark ages). The school called my folks to tell them and, yes, I got another when I got home. I didn't need many spankings as a child. The ones I got I needed. My children haven't needed a whack on the but since they were toddlers. Notice I said a whack...one... to stop dangerous behavior in it's tracks. I don't do time out. I find mind numbingly boring busy work to keep them busy while they consider what it is that they've done that they're gonna get grounded for. As for a school doing spanking... nope. Of course, if discipline were properly enforced in the home there would be much less need for discipline in the schools and certainly no need for spanking. There simply aren't any consequences for acting up in school anymore. I knew when I got my spanking that I had another one coming when I got home. Therefore, I pushed the limits only so far. Teachers have more than enough to do while at school without having to worry about issuing corporal punishment. They SHOULD be able to call a parent and know, without a doubt, that the problem would be taken care of that afternoon. Allowing it in schools would soon become expecting it in schools and be just one more things "parents" (yes, that's in quotes) in this country could push off onto some government entity.

I was never paddled in school - but I never needed it, either; if I had, I'd have been doing extra chores until my next birthday. I know this because my sister got into sufficient trouble to get paddled at school once, and did all of my chores and hers for several months following.

As a teacher, most of the kids I see are wonderful - but the ones who are unwonderful have parents who are similarly unwonderful. There are a small percentage who have something organically wrong, true - but paddling won't help them anyway.

My job is to teach - in my case, reading and math. Certainly, I attempt to teach, and model, proper behavior to my students - but if it's not happening at home, it's very unlikely to happen in the school.

I was a teacher for a little while and I did notice one thing. The kids that were polite, respectful and never needed a spanking had parents that were the same and enforced that on thier children, which I do say proudly sounds like a lot of parents that are talking on this thread. But the kids I always thought needed a good swat also had parents that needed a good swat. They were rude, loud, and generally sad people. Most of the time the kids that were get spankings are looking for a little attention and they might not necessarily want a spanking but they never came back and blamed me for getting one. They knew they did wrong. I grew up with corporal punishment and believe in it. I do not believe in abuse though. And do believe that we can trace most of our problems in school to thier home life. Once parents start parenting then there might not be this thread in the future.

I agree. See above.

I agree that children need to learn to value education and that it should start at home. There are lots and lots of values that children need to learn, and they need to start at home.

I agree. Again, see above.

Does the school system your children attend have a policy that allows spanking?

As a teacher, I am not allowed to paddle or spank children. I have, on occasion, broken up fights, but the contact there was minimal, usually grabbing the shoulder or neck of a shirt - but as was pointed out, that is different from a spanking. Discipline should begin at home; sadly, there are some children for whom it does not. The schools try, but we are not our students' parents, nor should we be.

 

[MJS]

When i was a kid, visiting a friends house, i didnt act a fool, know why? I knew his parents would take a belt to me, take me home, tell my mother and she would take a belt to me too.

So guess what? I didnt act up.

IMO, I don't think its the job of another parent to take over the discipline, in this case, spanking. Again, I'm not against a parent giving their kid a whack on the rear. It happened to me. And if I acted like a fool at a friends house, my parents were made aware of it and I was dealt with when I got home.

In My opinion, NOT spanking or paddling a child is a more serious form of abuse.

 

[MJS]

Suspending a kid from school isn't a punishment, it's a reward.

Can't disagree with that. It may have long term effects down the road, but at the time...you're right, its a vac. Of course, one would hope that the parents would do their job at home and not let that suspension turn into a vac.

 

[MJS]

I agree that children need to learn to value education and that it should start at home. There are lots and lots of values that children need to learn, and they need to start at home.

Agreed!!! Kids learn what they live. The parents need to take more responsibility and teach their kids right from wrong in the beginning, not wait until they're 15 and out of control.

Many times I avoided the spanking because I got 'the look.' You know..that look that your parents give you that basically says, "Knock it off or else!!!!" I knew better.

Does the school system your children attend have a policy that allows spanking?

AFAIK, there isn't a spanking policy in schools here, but I may be wrong.

 

[Twin Fist]

well, one problem these days, that i have seen first hand is kids now DARE parents to do anything to them, the kids THREATEN to call CPS on the parents.

sot he parents dont discepline the kids, then the teachers have to deal with them.

 

[Drac]

Iv'e been paddled a couple of times and when i got home I got it AGAIN, no one..My kids acts up in school give him a swat..

 

[Kreth]

While I firmly believe that the current general lack of respect shown by kids towards adults is directly tied to the decline in corporal punishment; if I found out that my child was spanked at school, he/she wouldn't be the only one getting a whipping...

 

[stickarts]

The inexpensive Private HS here (the wilds of Central CA) is $475 a month...
The one out in the sticks is $750 + you supply the books...

The private school that we will look at here is not cheap. I am not quitting either of my jobs soon.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Question: For those that say schools should not spank because that is the parents job, should schools also not teach sex education because that is also the parents job?

We repeatedly hear that schools must teach students sex education because it is not being done in the home. If its not done in the home, due to the possible consequences, the schools must do it.

Yet, if parents are not disciplining their children, we do not hear the same arguement. In fact, we hear vehement opposition to spanking in schools. And we all know the consequences of not disciplining children.

Now, I do not have a problem with the schools doing one and not the other, but are the arguments consistent? For most, I would have to say that they are probably not.

 

[Tez3]

Why do people asume that if you don't spank your children they aren't being disciplined? there's plenty of people who do spank their children and it doesn't teach them anything other than how to hit their children when they are older. Spanking doesn't show you care, it shows you have no other way to reason with your child or teach them how to behave. It's a very easy answer to a problem.
When you are teaching martial arts do you hit people to teach them discipline?
Smacking children doesn't have to be the only way it's perfectly possible to uphold discipline and correct wrong behaviour without inflicting pain. The important thing is that children are brought up with respect and learn to respect, they live what they learn, a truism I know but none the less valid for that.
If anyone had laid a hand on one of my children I'm afraid they would have been very sorry. No one touches my children and no, they aren't spoiled brats now they are adult.
The problems with children today are more to do with dysfunctional families, lack of knowing how to bring children up, the stresses of modern life where both parents have to work to maintain a reasonable lifestyle and the abdication of responsibilites that has been encouraged in people for a long time now. Children are time consuming, they demand attention and have minds like sponges, too often they are neglected in that they are given all the material things they could want but are having their minds neglected as well as being in need of human warmth and contact. Too often they are rushed from activity to activity, ballet, swimming, karate, scouts etc etc, when what they really want and need is time with their parents, playing, or reading aloud, drawing, cooking etc. This is the time you teach them discipline and how to behave,what is right and what is wrong from close personal interaction with their parents ( or parent, it doesn't have to be two).

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Why do people asume that if you don't spank your children they aren't being disciplined? there's plenty of people who do spank their children and it doesn't teach them anything other than how to hit their children when they are older. Spanking doesn't show you care, it shows you have no other way to reason with your child or teach them how to behave. It's a very easy answer to a problem.
When you are teaching martial arts do you hit people to teach them discipline?
Smacking children doesn't have to be the only way it's perfectly possible to uphold discipline and correct wrong behaviour without inflicting pain. The important thing is that children are brought up with respect and learn to respect, they live what they learn, a truism I know but none the less valid for that.
If anyone had laid a hand on one of my children I'm afraid they would have been very sorry. No one touches my children and no, they aren't spoiled brats now they are adult.
The problems with children today are more to do with dysfunctional families, lack of knowing how to bring children up, the stresses of modern life where both parents have to work to maintain a reasonable lifestyle and the abdication of responsibilites that has been encouraged in people for a long time now. Children are time consuming, they demand attention and have minds like sponges, too often they are neglected in that they are given all the material things they could want but are having their minds neglected as well as being in need of human warmth and contact. Too often they are rushed from activity to activity, ballet, swimming, karate, scouts etc etc, when what they really want and need is time with their parents, playing, or reading aloud, drawing, cooking etc. This is the time you teach them discipline and how to behave,what is right and what is wrong from close personal interaction with their parents ( or parent, it doesn't have to be two).

I am not saying that spanking is the only way, but, how does one reason with a two year old???

I know that my daughter is very smart, therefore she pushes what she can get away with, very knowingly. My reasoning with her had very little effect.

And spanking does not just teach a person to hit, nor is it a tool of the lazy parent. It is a very effective tool, if used in the right way. Just like martial arts. If used correctly, it is neither offensive nor abusive. It is merely a tool to accomplish ones goal.

Look at how many people on this thread have been spanked. Do we now just go around hitting people to solve our problems. I dont think so. And, I have also seen the number of people who havent been given a good ***-whooping who do nothing but hit and abuse others all the time.

And as you have admitted that you have never spanked your children, I would tell you that it is not an easy thing to do to spank your child. I do know, from experience of having been spanked and having spanked, that it is a very effective tool.

There is no one answer to the issue of child discipline. They all learn in their own way. Some learn from a good spanking, others may not. One could never lay a hand on a child, and they end up a mass murderer. One may get spanked as a child and be the epitome of restraint.

 

[Kacey]

Question: For those that say schools should not spank because that is the parents job, should schools also not teach sex education because that is also the parents job?

We repeatedly hear that schools must teach students sex education because it is not being done in the home. If its not done in the home, due to the possible consequences, the schools must do it.

Yet, if parents are not disciplining their children, we do not hear the same arguement. In fact, we hear vehement opposition to spanking in schools. And we all know the consequences of not disciplining children.

Now, I do not have a problem with the schools doing one and not the other, but are the arguments consistent? For most, I would have to say that they are probably not.

I am a teacher. Sex ed is part of the health curriculum, which is how it is taught, at least in my district, right alongside the importance of eating right, getting enough sleep, and regular exercise. While it is objectionable to some parents, who have the legal right to keep their children out of that portion of the curriculum should they so choose, it is a relatively straightforward set of information that can be imparted in a reasonably short amount of time. Discipline, in contrast, is a lifelong endeavor - while the schools can reinforce whatever discipline is provided at home, if they are not being taught discipline at home, then chances are whatever the school does will not be sufficient. That is the primary difference that I see.

An example: when a student got frustrated in my class and last year and walked out, saying "This class is whacked. **** you!!!" I called his mother... her response (once I got past the 3 minutes of obscene, profanity-laced rap song that replaces a ring for those who call her) was "He's an adult now, he's responsible for himself, you let the principal handle it - leave me alone". The child in question was 13; his mother was 26. He spent the summer moving from friend's house to friend's house every several days; his mother had no idea where he was and really didn't seem to care. He told the school social worker that he didn't want to be like his father, who got his mother pregnant and then left (Dad is currently in jail) - so to make sure, he always uses a condom. I'll repeat - this child is 13. What exactly do you think the school can do in terms of discipline with him without the support of his mother? But we did succeed in teaching him how to use birth control - preventing him from becoming a parent as early as his mother did. It's not much... but it's better than nothing.

 

[donna]

Why do people asume that if you don't spank your children they aren't being disciplined? there's plenty of people who do spank their children and it doesn't teach them anything other than how to hit their children when they are older. Spanking doesn't show you care, it shows you have no other way to reason with your child or teach them how to behave. It's a very easy answer to a problem.
When you are teaching martial arts do you hit people to teach them discipline?
Smacking children doesn't have to be the only way it's perfectly possible to uphold discipline and correct wrong behaviour without inflicting pain. The important thing is that children are brought up with respect and learn to respect, they live what they learn, a truism I know but none the less valid for that.
If anyone had laid a hand on one of my children I'm afraid they would have been very sorry. No one touches my children and no, they aren't spoiled brats now they are adult.
The problems with children today are more to do with dysfunctional families, lack of knowing how to bring children up, the stresses of modern life where both parents have to work to maintain a reasonable lifestyle and the abdication of responsibilites that has been encouraged in people for a long time now. Children are time consuming, they demand attention and have minds like sponges, too often they are neglected in that they are given all the material things they could want but are having their minds neglected as well as being in need of human warmth and contact. Too often they are rushed from activity to activity, ballet, swimming, karate, scouts etc etc, when what they really want and need is time with their parents, playing, or reading aloud, drawing, cooking etc. This is the time you teach them discipline and how to behave,what is right and what is wrong from close personal interaction with their parents ( or parent, it doesn't have to be two).

I agree with Tez. Spanking is the lazy way out . I have raised 5 children to be respectful upstanding adults that I am proud of. There are other ways to discipline children, even young children, without getting physical. Maybe parenting classes should be included in the school curiculum, so that people dont think it is ok to hit their children and bully them into submission.
I came from an era where I was caned at school (my second day at pre-primary was my first taste of fear). All it taught me was that adults hurt children.
My childhood memories are of being belted with whatever was handy every day, by my mother ,and then caned at school for such trivial things as talking in class.
I grew up vowing to never subject my children to that same fear. Look at the face of your child next time you "spank" them and see the fear. Is that what you want from your kids?, for them to fear you? And if you do desire fear, what are you doing raising precious children!You dont deserve them!
Also when you spank them, do you really know your own strength? what seems like a harmless swat to you, can cause real pain and often injury to delicate growing bodies.

 

[Tez3]

Reasoning with a two year old is not difficult, I used to run a playschool and have dealt with many toddlers, Ok it takes time and effort but if you've ever watched Supernanny you'll see being firm and in control will do it. I watched Supernanny programmes when she was in American and the universal theme running through it all was that the children ( and many of them were being spanked) thought they were in control not the adults. I believe parents have for a long time been told by so called child experts that the must let their children do basically whatever they want otherwise their children will grow up stifled or as bad people. This is nonsense, children who are taught there are boundaries and that those boundaries are put there by you to protect them because they are loved will flourish and grow up to be the people you are proud of. Too many parents want to be friends with their children when they should be parents.
There's always parents who will show little or no interest in their children as kacey has pointed out, this may be for a number of reasons and teachers seem to be expected to fill in, in fact teachers these days seem to be expected to do a lot more than teaching formal subjects they seem to be expected to raise the children too.
When I started school children could go to the toilet on their own, managing their clothes fastening themselves, they could eat with a knife and fork properly, they could dress and undress themselselves for PT and most importantly they had been taught how to listen. Now children are starting school with none of those basic skills. I find more and more when I teach children that they have never been taught how to be quiet and listen. When children start MA classes with us even the older ones think it's perfectly alright to interrupt while your speaking instead of waiting until you've finished. The modern take on this is that you mustn't teach your children basic manners because it will stifle their creativity, so they can speak whenever they feel like it to everyones detriment. This is where you get the disrespect and unruliness from, with each child thinking they are the most important one.
I don't see and probably never will why smacking is necessary, people cite the old days when everyone was smacked and consequently children were well behaved as a reason to smack, that's wrong IMO, they reason they were well behaved is because they were treated as children to be brought up not as little adults or as the parents best firends. Bedtimes were adhered to, routines established, children didn't have the worlds troubles dumped on them, they were allowed to use their imaginations and play outside with friends. Schools gave them a formal education and parents knew they were responsible for all the other parts such as sex education, manners etc. Now it's left to schools and the hard pressed teachers.
For a long time now I've worried about this trend to adultise children, it comes from having so many 'child care experts' around, starting with Dr. Spock, I have to say sadly this trend came across from America, it hasn't affected Europe hugely as Eurpoean children are still raised the 'old fashioned' way. Go into any restaurant in France and you will see well behaved children sat at the table eating politely. On the beach it's consiered every adults repsonsiblity to look out for the children, all the children! A child falls over by you, you pick them up and help them until mum or dad comes, no child is unwatched in the sea, toddlers and babies are petted by everyone, a child hurt or upset is everyones concern and that's on a huge beach! It's that general care for children that makes a difference whereas what's starting to happen in the UK is the attiude comes from the States that if you do anything you can be sued for it so it's best not to do anything.
In Europe the children literally still know their place, it's to be children. Every child deserves that right, to be a child.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

I came from an era where I was caned at school (my second day at pre-primary was my first taste of fear). All it taught me was that adults hurt children.
My childhood memories are of being belted with whatever was handy every day, by my mother ,and then caned at school for such trivial things as talking in class.

Dont misunderstand. There is a difference between spanking (a swat or two on the butt with a hand) and abuse (hitting with a cane).

Just some anecdotal evidence. My ex-wife has primary physical custody of my daughter. About once or twice a month she would call me to have me talk to my daughter because she was being bad in school. This was before my ex allowed me some reasonable visitation (long story). Now, the key to this is that my ex does not spank my daughter

Anyway, when I started my visits, my daughter would get unruly. I would try to talk with her about behaving, but it did not work. Then I started to spank her a few times when she got out of hand. To say that within one or two visits I did not have to spank her anymore would be an understatement. The phone calls from the ex stopped, she started behaving in school, and did not have nearly the problems that she did before.

I agree with Tez. Spanking is the lazy way out

A judicial use of physical punishment requires thought. It is not bullying them into submission. It can be an effective tool to stimulate understanding of disciplinary issues.

I would challenge anyone that says that spanking is abuse to come up with studies to show that children who were not spanked are better behaved and better adjusted then those who were. I venture to guess that any evidence that you might find would be inconclusive, or statistically insignificant at best.

Schools gave them a formal education and parents knew they were responsible for all the other parts such as sex education, manners etc. Now it's left to schools and the hard pressed teachers.

And I only bring up the sex education issue to point out the inconsistencies in peoples arguments. It is not the responsibility of the schools to replace irresponsible parents in one instant, but it is in another. How about that for teaching our children, that adults cant make an argument make sense.

 

[teekin]

I am going to weigh in here with Tez. My mother never never spanked me. She had the skin stripped off her back with a piece of a combine belt by her father because his dinner was late. She vowed to never strike her children. When I misbehaved she would sit me down and explain how my misbehavior had a negative effect on her. If I mouthed off, she would ask me why I wanted to hurt her. The end result was my feeling awful, crying, and promising to never do it again, and Meaning it. I would do anything to avoid one of Those talks from my mom.
When I lived with my dad there was no reasoning just" Whack." That very soon turns into "**** you, do your worst". My behavior never got any more civilized just more sophisticated. What the corporal punishment taught me was, men who are mentally and emotionally weak use physical force (violence) and intimidation as a means of domination/control. It was a good lesson, and has been reinforced on a few occasions but does a father want to teach this to is daughter? I hope not.
Perhaps your daughter's behavior improved it's because you have a loving relationship with her that she was missing not because you struck her?

Lori M