Say Fong Kuen

[RHD]

I want to be able to fly. Can Say Fong Kuen teach me to fly? Maybe I should ditch out on my sifu so I can learn how to fly from you guys. And those names! Those were way cooler sounding than the names of real people that Sifu Mike uses as references. I no longer wish to partake in a martial art that defaces and disgraces kung fu as a whole. Please oh wise one please! I beg of you! Accept me as your humble student...

Waaaaaaah Waaaaaaah Waaaaaaaah you're picking on me!
Where's the moderators? I won't tolerate this blatant disrespect!

Mike

 

[chee]

"All men strive to grasp what they do not know, while none strive to grasp what they already know; and all strive to discredit those things in which they do not excel. This is why there is chaos."​

Zhuang Zi (Warring States Period)​

 

[RHD]

"All men strive to grasp what they do not know, while none strive to grasp what they already know; and all strive to discredit those things in which they do not excel. This is why there is chaos."​

Zhuang Zi (Warring States Period)​

Looks like the Hawaiian mafia has zeroed in on me here in the Horror Stories forum. Lookout everyone, I sense much philosophizing, preaching, and "holier than thou"ness coming in over the horizon. How about some quotes from the Tao Te Ching or SunTzu? Any catchy pearls of wisdon you're holding back? For somone who's sifu dislikes competition, you folks sure like to try to be one up!

Calling all loyal devotees of Say Fong Kuen: The Hawaiin Yee Chuan Tao mafia is after me because they're angry that I refuse to acknowledge authenticity to their art or thier leader's background. Please come protect me and spit philosophy and quotes back at them!

Mike

 

[grappling_mandala]

... the horror ... the horror ...

 

[Gary Crawford]

OH NO!! Time to practice RUN FU!!!!!

 

[Keaka o Kanaka]

We have no problem with you not accepting the authenticity of Yee Chuan Tao. We could seriously care less about you. It's the fact that you are mocking it and deterring others who could possibly be interested in the art. You are saying that we are an illegitimate martial art, and yet you know nothing about us. You have never met us or seen what we do. You say that we can't possibly be an authentic martial art due to the lack of lineage, and yet you yourself have never listed yours. In fact, when your sifu was brought up, you quickly dismissed him as not being the point of the subject and continued attacking us. If lineage is something you need, Sifu Rob Moses is a direct descendent of Chu Chu Kai and has direct lineage. If that makes him a legitimate teacher then there ya go. Even if we were to give you the names of the past masters of Yee Chuan Tao, you wouldn't even know who they are. That's not something you can look up on the internet. You have no right to slanderize our school when you know absolutely nothing about it. Only if you came to our school and tried our martial art, and didn't like it at all, would you have the right to say anything negative about it. Besides....I still want to learn how to fly. If Say Fong Kuen can teach me how to do so...then I'll join right away. Cause you guys sure have a kick *** sounding name. <says Say Fong Kuen in head several times> Kick *** sounding name...

 

[someguy]

Hey I wanna be a Master. Can I be one. Please. If not I'll just go make myself a new style. And then I'll be the Grand Master. My style will be called hmmm Wut thuh *** style.
Edited for circumvention of the profanity filter.
Seig
MT Operational Admin

 

[Flatlander]

Looks like the Hawaiian mafia has zeroed in on me here in the Horror Stories forum. Lookout everyone, I sense much philosophizing, preaching, and "holier than thou"ness coming in over the horizon. How about some quotes from the Tao Te Ching or SunTzu? Any catchy pearls of wisdon you're holding back? For somone who's sifu dislikes competition, you folks sure like to try to be one up!

Calling all loyal devotees of Say Fong Kuen: The Hawaiin Yee Chuan Tao mafia is after me because they're angry that I refuse to acknowledge authenticity to their art or thier leader's background. Please come protect me and spit philosophy and quotes back at them!

Mike

Alright, Mike, I have this to say.

1. I really do not see how any of this should make any difference to you. Are you bored with just studying your art, and letting others study theirs? Then try something new.

2. Who are you to judge another? I have read the YCT thread. I do not recall these people ever asking for your opinion.

3. I think it's about time that you've read the forum rules. I am not a moderator, so feel free to tell me to stick it, but what you are doing here is going way beyond "friendly discussion".

4. Grow up. I grew out of this garbage in junior high school. You have stated your opinion, good enough. I don't think ridiculing and mocking reflects very well on you. You are getting close to losing your oportunity to have my respect. From what I can glean into your personality, that probably has no meaning for you. I shudder to think that you may hold some position of influence in your little world.

5. What makes Hung Gar any more legitimate as an art form than YCT? Go ahead and try to justify this. Go ahead. Let's see your logical capabilities. Let's start with your definition of "legitimate".

6. This started out as funny, but I'm no longer amused. If you keep this up, I can see people choosing not to come here anymore because of you. That reflects very badly on your respect toward the Administrators of this forum.

7. These YCT students have already declared their intention to travel and compete in the Taiji Legacy. Will you be there to witness and provide support for your position on this? Or will you sit in front of your computer and pout because the world hasn't been fair to you?

I honestly hope that you don't reply to this post. I have better things to do than point out your foolishness, but this is getting kind of sick. Your opinion does not a fact make. Keep that in mind.

Dan.

 

[RHD]

Alright, Mike, I have this to say.

1. I really do not see how any of this should make any difference to you. Are you bored with just studying your art, and letting others study theirs? Then try something new.

2. Who are you to judge another? I have read the YCT thread. I do not recall these people ever asking for your opinion.

3. I think it's about time that you've read the forum rules. I am not a moderator, so feel free to tell me to stick it, but what you are doing here is going way beyond "friendly discussion".

4. Grow up. I grew out of this garbage in junior high school. You have stated your opinion, good enough. I don't think ridiculing and mocking reflects very well on you. You are getting close to losing your oportunity to have my respect. From what I can glean into your personality, that probably has no meaning for you. I shudder to think that you may hold some position of influence in your little world.

5. What makes Hung Gar any more legitimate as an art form than YCT? Go ahead and try to justify this. Go ahead. Let's see your logical capabilities. Let's start with your definition of "legitimate".

6. This started out as funny, but I'm no longer amused. If you keep this up, I can see people choosing not to come here anymore because of you. That reflects very badly on your respect toward the Administrators of this forum.

7. These YCT students have already declared their intention to travel and compete in the Taiji Legacy. Will you be there to witness and provide support for your position on this? Or will you sit in front of your computer and pout because the world hasn't been fair to you?

I honestly hope that you don't reply to this post. I have better things to do than point out your foolishness, but this is getting kind of sick. Your opinion does not a fact make. Keep that in mind.

Dan.

Wow Dan, sorry you're so offended.

1) I am deeply concerned with the quality of CMA's being taught. People are free to practice what they like and believe what they like.

2) This is a discussion forum. It's a place to express opinions, if you don't like mine then don't read my posts. Would you rather that people who read this forum simply nod and say "that's great!" to everything people post here?

3) If I'm breaking forum rules then the moderators are free to ban me.

4) You're right, in my little world I could care less whether you respect me or not. Who are you that I should be so concerned with your respect?

5) Hung Gar has a clearly traceable history and training structure. I think you would be hard pressed to find a practitioner of that system that wouldn't be glad to answer questions about it or about thier own backgrounds.

6) I seriously doubt that one joke thread will discourage others from participating in this forum. It's an online forum...Are you taking things too seriously? Are you sitting in front of your monitor anxiously awaiting the next "outrage"?

7) No, I won't be attending Taiji Legacy because of career demands. I am not however, sitting in front of my computer pouting about anything. If that's the perception you have, then I'm sorry to inform you that I am not unhappy, jealous, or pouting...

:uhyeah:

Mike

 

[RHD]

You have no right to slanderize our school when you know absolutely nothing about it. .

Slander? Hmmmm...Are you folks so upset that you're prepared to take an anonymous nobody to court for a slander suit? I only read the information presented on your school's website. If it's not true, don't publicize it. If it is true, be prepared to back it up. If you publically claim to be undefeated in underground cage matches then your credibility is zero if you can't prove it. My Say Fong Kuen thread is a perfect example of this. No one can disprove my claims...so does that make them true?

Believe what you want Keaka, if you don't like my opinions don't listen to them.

Mike

 

[lonecoyote]

Just how upset can one get about this? It's the internet, for gosh sake, everyone is a self appointed expert and opinions here are pretty cheap. Taking this stuff personally is pretty silly. I see Say Fong Kuen as a way to poke a little fun at all martial arts of dubious heritage, not just Yee Chuan Dao, which I have no idea about, and may be the most legitimate martial art out there. All Chinese martial art backstories sound a little hinky to me, actually. I think all mas are full of self promotion, and packaging and, well, mythology, I don't care whether you're talking about the burning down of the Shaolin temple, and subsequent escape of several martial arts founders, the Korean mas link to the Hwaoran, or Taekyon, making them all 3000 yrs old or whatever, the Japanese ninja, or more recent martial arts stories there are always at least a couple of things about the founding of any system that make any thinking human being a little skeptical. It would be great if we could drop the mystical stuff, but it keeps people interested I suppose. Lots of myths and stories about supposedly unbeatable hardcore modern combat oriented no kata stuff too, or grappling stuff, in fact this mythology is being written even as we speak on other forums by people involved in a pretty extreme groupthink mentality. I think we could all lighten up a bit. For my part, modern combat Sa Fung Kwoon concepts will live on, even if this thread gets shut down.

 

[Flatlander]

Wow Dan, sorry you're so offended.

1) I am deeply concerned with the quality of CMA's being taught. People are free to practice what they like and believe what they like.

2) This is a discussion forum. It's a place to express opinions, if you don't like mine then don't read my posts. Would you rather that people who read this forum simply nod and say "that's great!" to everything people post here?

3) If I'm breaking forum rules then the moderators are free to ban me.

4) You're right, in my little world I could care less whether you respect me or not. Who are you that I should be so concerned with your respect?

5) Hung Gar has a clearly traceable history and training structure. I think you would be hard pressed to find a practitioner of that system that wouldn't be glad to answer questions about it or about thier own backgrounds.

6) I seriously doubt that one joke thread will discourage others from participating in this forum. It's an online forum...Are you taking things too seriously? Are you sitting in front of your monitor anxiously awaiting the next "outrage"?

7) No, I won't be attending Taiji Legacy because of career demands. I am not however, sitting in front of my computer pouting about anything. If that's the perception you have, then I'm sorry to inform you that I am not unhappy, jealous, or pouting...

:uhyeah:

Mike

Mike, my concern stems from the ridiculing that people are taking in this thread that seems to be nothing more than satirizing the beliefs of another human, who, as you say, is

free to practice what they like and believe what they like.

If they are free, then allow them to be so.

1. If you are so concerned, then change it as best you can. From within your own organization. Discrediting others does not add credibility to you. Why the concern over the training others recieve? At least they are learning something. If it truly has no value, they will learn that in their own way, in their own time. You must agree that nothing you say will 'do it' for them. Change comes from within.

2. Good point. But, who are you to attempt to discredit? I understand the emotion behind it, but, given the likelihood of affecting change in this venue, I fail to see the value of the effort. Particularly when you resort to schoolyard tactics.

3. Again, good point. But I'd rather it not have to go that far. Why push the envelope?

4. Nor should you require me to. But wouldn't the world be that much of a better place if we could all just get along?

5. I seem to be talking to one, so, go ahead.

6. I don't doubt it at all. I wouldn't stick around if I was being ridiculed. There's tons of other boards to check out. I'm partial to this one. I've been treated pretty good here. I'd like others to be able to share that without having to put up with insecure lashings out. Therefore, I do what I can to help out.

7. I am glad of that.

Basically, Mike, I think the problem that I have here is your intolerance. The way an artform is legitimized is through it's application - not documentation. I could tell you I know the art of Dan-Fu. Is it legitimate? Who cares what anyone thinks. I can move in effective ways. Good enough for me. My instructor moves well. I don't care what he's teaching me, I'm learning. I know more than I did before. Thus, it's legitimate to me. That's it. That's my point. Can we (you and I) be cool with that?

Dan.

 

[Keaka o Kanaka]

Thank you very much flatlander...That was very well said...

 

[RHD]

Basically, Mike, I think the problem that I have here is your intolerance. The way an artform is legitimized is through it's application - not documentation. I could tell you I know the art of Dan-Fu. Is it legitimate? Who cares what anyone thinks. I can move in effective ways. Good enough for me. My instructor moves well. I don't care what he's teaching me, I'm learning. I know more than I did before. Thus, it's legitimate to me. That's it. That's my point. Can we (you and I) be cool with that?

Dan.

Dan, I really do understand what you're saying. The problem here is that Mr. Vendrell has some pretty outrageous claims listed publically on his website. These are selling points for his business. Since he's using these points to highlight the uniqueness, efficacy, and legitimacy of what he teaches, he should have concrete evidence to back them up. His students very obviously love him and that's admirable, but faith does not a CMA make. Debating what is a legitmate CMA and what is not, isn't the point here. The point is, be prepared to prove what you claim.

My thread on Say Fong kuen is a blaring example of why I doubt the Yee Chuan Tao claims. No one can disprove that Say Fong Kuen exits or I am grandmaster of that system...Does that mean its real? No. However, I am not using my online claims to sell a business, a situation where closer scrutiny is due.

I am intolerant of anyone who claims such things but can't or won't provide concrete proof to back up his claims. It presents badly for CMA and indeed for all MA's. Granted, I am not the official representative for what is and what isn't a CMA, but I will fervently pursue that which in my opinion, detracts from them.

Mike

 

[Flatlander]

And I can dig that. I feel it is a just cause, in a general sense. Personally, I have no opinion on YCT.

I figure that the point regarding SFK has been made, and you've done it in a creative way. But can you see that it's simply ridicule and finger pointing? I'm sure that if you do your research, and put as much effort into your endeavour as you have creatively into this thread, you'll achieve a more meaningful result, without the disrespect.

At any rate, I think you hear me, so that's cool enough. That's all I was after. I'll leave it alone now.

Good luck to you, Mike. I'm glad we could deal with this positively.

Dan.

 

[Marginal]

"An angry duck's quack still will not echo."

-Nameless

 

[Marginal]

"The less I learn, the more I know."

-Nameless

 

[KenpoTess]

MOD NOTE

We all know why this thread was moved to Horror stories.. if it becomes Personal it's crossed the line and I believe it's reached over into that area. If people who are Legit in their Art wish to discuss their art in a mannerly fashion, Please feel free to do so in one of the Fora's on the board. This has gone on long enough and I'm locking the thread pending Admin Review.

Thank you,

~Tess
-MT S. MOD-