Return to some old styles...

[isshinryuronin]

This is an example of what I call "entanglement." It's a great way t'o neutralize an opponent's superiority. Not the same as a boxing clinch as offensive opportunities still exist. I've used this tactic a number of times and found there is some risk of getting entangled and unbalanced yourself. You need a strong stance and structure when you're tied up with the opponent.

This is my post #26 (responding to Kung Fu Wang's post #24) that I thought should be clarified. While sort of related to the way I used "entanglement," that word can also refer to the little-known Okinawan skill of karamidi, restraining techniques once used by law enforcement to control the opponent without causing serious injury.

IMO this should not be called a subset skill of karate as it's contrary to karate's original intent which was to crush the opponent and cause injury. Some styles may have a few of the techniques. Karamidi can also reference the binding of the opponent with ropes to render them unable to move.

It likely existed before karate was fully developed in Okinawa. Japanese Samurai and LE had similar skills (hojoojutsu - had to look up the Japanese word) and I think there's a good chance it's the source of the Okinawan version. The fathers of karate such as Matsumura were security agents for the king and learned Samurai arts in Japan. So, like kobudo (bo, sai, etc.,) this was a separate skill set from early karate. Kobudo made its way into karate and is practiced by some styles today. The emptyhanded karamidi present in karate styles today is limited in scope, although modern Japanese LE may be trained in it. I believe the rope binding art is still alive in Japan as a koryu.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I’m going of topic here. Are those guys actually faking their deep stances by sitting on som sort of stairway ?? Is it Chen Xiaowang in that picture ?

Chen push hands is sometimes done in a deep stance and includes use of the legs. I have done push hands with a few Chen guys, 2 directly linked to Chenjiaguo, they tend to go low and use their knee to move your knee. And that look very much like a young Chen Xiaowang

 

[Xue Sheng]

I just pointed out that , when reading the list of the 13 postures, the four directions- advancing, retreating, step left and right , they are not separate from upper body movements……That’s of course pretty obvious, but still I for some reason wanted to point it out .

As it’s clear in the TJQ form, while stepping the upper body momentarily may twist and turn seemingly not in conjunction with the direction of the stepping thus challenging the six directional harmony and by so eventually exercising the six directional harmony on deeper/higher levels.

As seeing it as footwork, the four directions - advance, retreat, left and right of course are obviously not just four directions, there’s 8, 12 …and so on directions.
On an esoterical note, with the four directions theoretically overlapping forming a +, a perfect circle can be drawn, add directions of up/down to the four directions then a sphere can be drawn thus thus strengthening one’s center to perfection and so opening for endless possibilities - indeed the great ultimate

traditionally its 5 directions if you including center. If you look only at foot work it can be 8 from a traditional POV