Return to some old styles...

[Xue Sheng]

I said this before, and it still stands, I am retired from Yang Stykle Taijiquan.... since then I have tried to go back to some JKD, some Wing Chun, and made my own taijiquan form based on my over 30 years of experience in taijiquan. That form by the way is done and I still do it, and I am working on a 13 postures form to go with it. And I am still working with Sun style, and plan on getting into that deeper soon, hopefully with a guy I know that was trained by the Sun family. I am still thinking about giving another style a try. I have not yet, more on that later possibly. But in all honesty that style would only be to support the old styles I seem to be gravitating back to.

I should say, I do really like JKD, and if I were younger, I would keep at it, but I have come to the conclusion, that in my early 60s, I am not fast enough, not flexible enough, and to stuck in my ways and previous styles to ever really be any good at it. It was a great school, great folks were training there, and some real impressive fighters too. But I just felt like I was causing more hrm that good when training, both to myself (I'm already old and beat up) and others by them needing to lower their standards to accommodate the old guy. Wing Chun, also rather enjoy it, and I would recommend this sifu over any other if you want to really learn Wing Chun and get a rather effective martial art, and I have not yet stopped going, but I feel it coming.... Wing Chun is just not me.

I got some bad news about a friend and fellow martial artist this past week, he has been a rather hardcore martial artist too. It got me thinking about retirement and what I want to be training.possibly teaching, when I get there, and it kept coming back to the same thing....The Chinese internal martial arts (CIMA) styles I have trained over the last 30 years. Oh speaking of retirement, @Buka, Mrs Xue changed the state I am allegedly retiring to, it is no longer Maine, although we are keeping the place there. It is now New Hampshire.... and I'm rather ok with that too.

I am working with Chen style again, nothing new, just working with the 19 form, and considering working with the 18. If that goes well, maybe the 38. But I doubt I will return to Laojia Yilu. Also started back with some Xingyiquan, that will not really come as any surprise to people who have been in MT awhile.... I am addicted to the style, can't seem to quit it no matter ow hard I might try...And if that goes well, I may work at getting my Cheng style Baguazhang 8 palm back, and no one is more surprised than I am at my wanting to do that...

Also I had this thought tonight about stance training as I was sitting in front of the TV watching an old movie (Key Largo), who has the time these days to stand in a posture for 30 minutes to an hour.....no one..... then I realized I had been sitting here watching TV, doing nothing, for over 2 hours..... so I went down stairs and started stance training again...not to long yet, but it appears that I have at least 2 free hours a day to do it.....

Started back down the CIMA path this evening, and started at the beginning, mostly
Tonight
- Started with work on internal energy, and rooting
- then stance training, Zhan Zhuang, Santi Shi, and something kind of new from Cheng Bagua, I think it is called dragon standing
- I did my form, sun short form, worked on the Chen 19 form

I do not plan on moving into this with any great speed, I plan on starting from the beginning...stance training... and going from there. As I have heard before, its not a race, its a journey....besides, I'm to old an beat uo to be winning many races these days

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Why do you care about "style"?

When I walk on the beach and train "jab-hook-uppercut" combo, I don't care what style I'm training. I just know

- it's good for combat,
- it's good for health, and
- I enjoy of doing it.

I can just drill this combo 1,000 times. That will give me 3,000 punches for a good work out.

I can drill different combos on different days. By using jab, cross, hook, uppercut, overhand, back fist, I can have 6 x 6 x 6 = 216 different 3 punches punching combo to work with. Of course, some combos may not make sense. Trying to keep logic combos and discard non-logic combos can be an interested task.

 

[windwalker099]

made my own taijiquan form based on my over 30 years of experience in taijiquan. That form by the way is done and I still do it, and I am working on a 13 postures form to go with it.

Care to show your work, with a little commentary on the basis for development? It might help others in developing their own style.

 

[Same Trick]

I personally think the traditional forms I train are so well thought through constructions so there’s no need for creating a ‘same trick’ TJQ or XYQ form.
As for a TJQ 13 posture form…..that’s what the traditional TJQ form is, a 13 posture form, whether the form is called 108,91 or 85 they are all exercises of the 13 postures
Although I’m reluctant to develop any new forms I do like freestyling from time to time just as KungFu Wang describing.
Also, a somewhat freestyling comes about by itself when the traditional form has been well enough ingrained in one’s core, it feels refreshing but it’s not a new form, it’s still the traditional form but with a for the moment spirited flavor

 

[Gyakuto]

If I developed a new form, I’d fill it with all the techniques I like and can do without any effort, which would defeat the purpose of a form

 

[_Simon_]

I'm sorry to hear about your friend... but really, really cool plan; always love hearing the enthusiasm of your trajectory and journey

 

[Xue Sheng]

Why do you care about "style"?

When I walk on the beach and train "jab-hook-uppercut" combo, I don't care what style I'm training. I just know

- it's good for combat,
- it's good for health, and
- I enjoy of doing it.

I can just drill this combo 1,000 times. That will give me 3,000 punches for a good work out.

I can drill different combos on different days. By using jab, cross, hook, uppercut, overhand, back fist, I can have 6 x 6 x 6 = 216 different 3 punches punching combo to work with. Of course, some combos may not make sense. Trying to keep logic combos and discard non-logic combos can be an interested task.

Why don't you care about style?

It is a question of personal preference and how I want to train...that is all. I can drill different combos too. It is a part of learning a style.... you do not follow the form blindly, it is just a training tool....

 

[Xue Sheng]

Care to show your work, with a little commentary on the basis for development? It might help others in developing their own style.

Commentary, will be here, videos, nope, not a chance

 

[Xue Sheng]

I personally think the traditional forms I train are so well thought through constructions so there’s no need for creating a ‘same trick’ TJQ or XYQ form.
As for a TJQ 13 posture form…..that’s what the traditional TJQ form is, a 13 posture form, whether the form is called 108,91 or 85 they are all exercises of the 13 postures
Although I’m reluctant to develop any new forms I do like freestyling from time to time just as KungFu Wang describing.
Also, a somewhat freestyling comes about by itself when the traditional form has been well enough ingrained in one’s core, it feels refreshing but it’s not a new form, it’s still the traditional form but with a for the moment spirited flavor

You really need to read what I post more closely before you attack....you tend to miss my point and resopnd to things I did not say. But in this case, the 13 posture and what it will be for, was a little vague. But if you do Taijiquan you should know what I am referring to when I say 13 postures.

The new style had no high purpose, was not a commentary on other style are lacking, and was ONLY Yang style taijiquan, not Chen, Wu, Sun, Hao. Not XIngyiquan or Baguazhang.

I have the style I do because, after 30 years of it, I got tired of Yang style and realized I was forcing myself to do the form. I did not want to stop all together, so I started 24 form. However due to my background, I felt 24 form was missing something, so I added some things from the traditional style. Before snake creeps down it needed something that I felt was needed and that was a repulse monkey from Wu style. Also felt snake creeps down was useless and a major break in the energy and flow, so I took it out and substituted more from Traditional Yang, but needed a link to needle at the sea bottom so I find, at least for me, a posture that is a combination of Sun and Chen fit the bill. eneed up 60 postures in all and the focus is more on understanding function for martial purpposes than the taijiquan dance many do.

The 13 posture. There are multiple 13 posture forms, some actually use the 13 postures, some are simpky 13 postures. There is a saying in taijiquan, if you understand the 13 postures, you know how to defend yourself. What I am talking about are actually the 13 postures, the 5 gates and 8 directions. And it is more for self defense purposes and understanding the 13 postures, which by they way I beleive most doing taijiquan today have absolutly no idea they exist, little alone what they are for.

However after form, there is freestyle. But then there is a lot more to form than most know or are willing to train. Xingyiquan for example, people learn the 5 elements; Piquan, Zuanquan, Bengquan, Paoquan Hengquan. then feel they are done and move on. But they are far from done. They also need to be trained with opposite fist and leg, they need to be trained backward, they need to be trained with all stepping, they need to be trained in different orders, they also need to be trained walking a circle, weaving in and out and stationary, gets pretty spirited if you train it right. Taijiquan and eveb Baguazhang are no different, they need to be trained in other ways than the standard form.

 

[Xue Sheng]

If I developed a new form, I’d fill it with all the techniques I like and can do without any effort, which would defeat the purpose of a form

Yes it is, and no it doesn't, at least not in my opinion

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm sorry to hear about your friend... but really, really cool plan; always love hearing the enthusiasm of your trajectory and journey

Thanks, he has some major life changing decision to make

 

[windwalker099]

Commentary, will be here, videos, nope, not a chance

Thanks anyway, appreciate it .

I had asked because I did something similar, though for slightly different reasons. I spent about 5 years working on it, but later gave up the project as it was not in line with my own focus.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I had asked because I did something similar, though for slightly different reasons. I spent about 5 years working on it, but later gave up the project as it was not in line with my own focus.

I have also created a 48 moves Taiji form many years ago. My senior SC brother made a video out of it (Yin Yang Taiji). After that day, I knew I could create Taiji form any way I wanted to. I lose interest in it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The 13 posture.

Are we talking about the same 13 postures here? IMO, the last 5 postures are too abstract to be any useful.

I can understand how to train

- advance,
- retreat,
- step to the left,
- step to the right.

But how do you train/test

- stay at the center?

1. Ward Off - Peng
2. Roll Back - Lu
3. Press - Ji
4. Push - An
5. Pull Down - Tsai
6. Split - Lieh
7. Elbow - Chou
8. Shoulder - Kao
9. Advancing Steps - Jin
10. Retreating Steps - Tui
11. Stepping to the Left Side - Ku
12. Stepping to the Right Side - Pan
13. Settling at the Center - Ding

 

[Same Trick]

Are we talking about the same 13 postures here? IMO, the last 5 postures are too abstract to be any useful.

I can understand how to train

- advance,
- retreat,
- step to the left,
- step to the right.

But how do you train/test

- stay at the center?

1. Ward Off - Peng
2. Roll Back - Lu
3. Press - Ji
4. Push - An
5. Pull Down - Tsai
6. Split - Lieh
7. Elbow - Chou
8. Shoulder - Kao
9. Advancing Steps - Jin
10. Retreating Steps - Tui
11. Stepping to the Left Side - Ku
12. Stepping to the Right Side - Pan
13. Settling at the Center - Ding

Holding ones ground, keeping one’s composure, being centered.

It comes last on the list, because it’s the fruit of the practice(sparring as well as form) of all the other, it’s the state that put skill in all the other.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Holding ones ground, keeping one’s composure, being centered.

It comes last on the list, because it’s the fruit of the practice(sparring as well as form) of all the other, it’s the state that put skill in all the other.

You can't move around forever. When you have limit space to move around, soon or later you just have to stand still and fight for your territory. Is this just common sense?

As far as move forward, move back, move left, and move right, which MA style is not doing those?

 

[Same Trick]

You can't move around forever. When you have limit space to move around, soon or later you just have to stand still and fight for your territory. Is this just common sense?

As far as move forward, move back, move left, and move right, which MA style is not doing those?

The - advance, retreat, step to left, step to right sounds as just footwork, however they are in unison with the previous “upper body” postures, therefore it’s on a physical note a whole body matter.

However as TJQ in its very name of its boxing hold the “esoteric” of the taijitu the concept of duality. And with that we can see the - advance/retreat, left/right, we lay these basic four directions as a + we find the perfect center and so the fifth - the central equilibrium comes forth, a perfect alignment of heaven/man/earth

 

[Xue Sheng]

Are we talking about the same 13 postures here? IMO, the last 5 postures are too abstract to be any useful.

I can understand how to train

- advance,
- retreat,
- step to the left,
- step to the right.

But how do you train/test

- stay at the center?

1. Ward Off - Peng
2. Roll Back - Lu
3. Press - Ji
4. Push - An
5. Pull Down - Tsai
6. Split - Lieh
7. Elbow - Chou
8. Shoulder - Kao
9. Advancing Steps - Jin
10. Retreating Steps - Tui
11. Stepping to the Left Side - Ku
12. Stepping to the Right Side - Pan
13. Settling at the Center - Ding

Its called centering, other than that, to avoid another of our taiji battles in previous posts, lets just leave it my understanding appears to be very different from yours

 

[windwalker099]

The - advance, retreat, step to left, step to right sounds as just footwork, however they are in unison with the previous “upper body” postures, therefore it’s on a physical note a whole body matter.

Care to go more in-depth on "whole body matter"?

How do you feel this is different from other stepping?

We used to use many footwork patterns in stepping, combined with upper body movement and lower body stances.

One of the many foot work patterns we used in out practice...

 

[isshinryuronin]

I can understand how to train

- advance,
- retreat,
- step to the left,
- step to the right.

But how do you train/test

- stay at the center?

There was a video of Benny Urquidez demonstrating some techniques of holding your ground that were excellent. I forget the thread it was on.

Yes, it's more difficult to train "not moving" even though it sounds easier. First, one can practice rooting by using something like karate's sanchin kata which strengthens the core structure as one will need a strong base the way the hub of a wheel supports the spokes.

Since we are not stepping to evade the attack, it must be deflected. Techniques that "ward off" must be used as you highlighted in your #1. But I don't see why your #2,3,4 or 5 can't be employed as well. If your base is strong, can't these be done effectively while the feet are stationary without stepping? Again, sanchin trains how to do this, in part.

Another consideration is that since you are not moving or changing position in relation to the attacker, you must change his position in relation to you. This means manipulating him, turning him around not only to redirect his attack, but to create openings for your counter. While you can practice stepping alone, I think to develop working from the center a partner is needed to pressure you.

What about pivoting into a twist stance? You are staying on the vertical axis, still at the center, yet your technique is rotating in a circular fashion, along with the opponent hopefully, around you.

Holding ones ground, keeping one’s composure, being centered.

These are just other ways of saying "stay at the center." Doesn't describe how to practice it as KFW is asking.