Respectfuly declining a rank advancement?

[Mimir]

Oh, absolutely! We put our 3 year old daughter in the 'tots' program, and she LOVE it!! Our son... well Grandmaster is pleased with his kiap, but he's only 5 months old

:rofl:

I remember my wife saying that when she was pregnant with our youngest and would be watching class, that she (the baby) would kick like crazy the whole class. so I can appreciate the kiap!

I also wanted to add that we all have things that we need to improve in our art. It is actually a good sign that you are aware that you need to work on things instead of letting your ego get in the way of your training. One of the things I have always heard from my instructors is that when you reach blackbelt, that is when the real training begins.

 

[Cirdan]

Normally I`d say trust your instructor, dedicated students like you will advance faster than the average guy who trains 2-3 hrs a week.
However I since the club got those impressive 6 year old black belt miracle kids I`d say it is quite safe to assume belts mean little there anyway.

 

[YoungMan]

If I recommend you to test, this means that, after having taken into consideration your physical skills, background, attitude, and health issues, I have decided you will pass. If I didn't think you would pass or were not ready, I would not recommend you. If you decline, and you may, this means your judgement is better than mine.
The end result is that I may not recommend you again for a while (read: years). Bottom line: you should test when I give you the chance because you don't know when you'll get another one.
I've talked to high ranking instructors who tested even after surgery because they didn't know when they would get another opportunity.

 

[Manny]

You are not alone. Afther almost 18 years of inactivity I returned to TKD, I got my firsth degree black belt at 20, now I'm 40. When I retook TKD classes I pointed out to my samboknim I wanted o train cause the work out and to gain some healt and lose some bacon. Well afther barely a year of training my sambunim wanted me to do my second degree black belt test and I refuse it, it was the same as you felt about yourself, I had no stamina, my kicks are not so good, in sparring I really are not good, my timing is off my distance too, and I can't endure a three round fight.

my sambuking tried to conviced me saying I was prepared but I wasn't, and the most importat I felt I did not deserve the second degree and in my mind and heart knew I was not prepared period. So, I declined to go for the national examination last july and even I felt like diying cause I wanted the promotion I really felt I don't deserved it.

Something I see in every TKD dojan thes days is the kids and youngesters are been promoted to the next levels too soon, a TKD or any other martial arts practicioners must to grow with his/hers degree in every ways, don't wana say the sambunim is getting more money doing testings every two or three months, but think the promotion tests must not be so soon, and the kids must to sweat and deserve the next belt

Yestarday I attended an examn where my daughter did her yellow belt test and almost all the kids had faults in pooomse and breakin and some will not spar as they should.

As you I rather prefer be a 1 dan black belt for many years till I get what it takes to go for the next level than be a crapy 4th dan black belt.

You are right to decline a ranking test if not feel ready for it.

Manny

 

[granfire]

If I recommend you to test, this means that, after having taken into consideration your physical skills, background, attitude, and health issues, I have decided you will pass. If I didn't think you would pass or were not ready, I would not recommend you. If you decline, and you may, this means your judgement is better than mine.
The end result is that I may not recommend you again for a while (read: years). Bottom line: you should test when I give you the chance because you don't know when you'll get another one.
I've talked to high ranking instructors who tested even after surgery because they didn't know when they would get another opportunity.

That is kinda dumb.

There are many reasons not to test, some times least of it is skill. For all us non professionals, we do have a life that sometimes requires us to be elsewhere then in the Dojang.

Especially if tests are as frequent as every 6 month, no reason to not sit one out. Naturally, Higher ranks have it a little harder. At least where I come from, the frequency decreases, eventually rapidly, so sitting out once can mean a year or so longer...but that's just that. If the journey is the destination.. what does it matter.


However, should the instructor put a belt in your hand w/o you paying for the testing fee, I think that that should mean he thinks you have earned it.

 

[YoungMan]

Not dumb at all. Trust your instructor. If I recommend you, and you fail or do poorly, it lowers my credibility among my peers. So it is in both of our best interests for me to recommend you only when I think you're ready.
As for Taekwondo is a journey, I agree completely. However, if you decide to wait 20 years for your next Dan test, you open the door to stagnation. Getting to test for higher Dan is a great honor and certainly as much a motivation as anything else. You should always test when given the chance.

 

[jim777]

You cannot turn down the promotion if offered; you MUST accept it, and you must afterward do what you feel you need to do to feel worthy of it. There

I would also hazard a guess that your 8th Dan Master did in fact promote you, knows you will feel very uncomfortable about it, and I suspect it probably pleases him no end :lol: I think you may be in a very special circumstance, and should consider giving up a bit of what you want for you, and give in a bit to what he wants for you. If he thinks you have the chance of getting to a high rank and becoming an outstanding martial artist, I doubt he will leave you feeling all comfortable and happy with yourself for more than a week at a time here and there

 

[faerie2]

Normally I`d say trust your instructor, dedicated students like you will advance faster than the average guy who trains 2-3 hrs a week.
However I since the club got those impressive 6 year old black belt miracle kids I`d say it is quite safe to assume belts mean little there anyway.

Nice. We have one 6 year old bb (poom) who has attended almost every class available for 3 years. I don't think 5 days/week earning a junior bb is a "miracle". Maybe we have different 6 year olds here than where you are.

 

[faerie2]

You cannot turn down the promotion if offered; you MUST accept it, and you must afterward do what you feel you need to do to feel worthy of it. There

I would also hazard a guess that your 8th Dan Master did in fact promote you, knows you will feel very uncomfortable about it, and I suspect it probably pleases him no end :lol: I think you may be in a very special circumstance, and should consider giving up a bit of what you want for you, and give in a bit to what he wants for you. If he thinks you have the chance of getting to a high rank and becoming an outstanding martial artist, I doubt he will leave you feeling all comfortable and happy with yourself for more than a week at a time here and there

Interesting. I think everyone enjoyed the look on my face when they called my name during the test. :jaw-dropping::eye-popping: I feel terribly now that I didn't 'accept', or return the test request form. As I said, I'm still new to this and I didn't want them to feel like I was in this just for rank promotion. I fear that I may have offended them in the process of thinking that I would just wait until next time. Ugh. Now the school is closed for a week so I can't even chat with them about it.

 

[faerie2]

Not dumb at all. Trust your instructor. If I recommend you, and you fail or do poorly, it lowers my credibility among my peers. So it is in both of our best interests for me to recommend you only when I think you're ready.
As for Taekwondo is a journey, I agree completely. However, if you decide to wait 20 years for your next Dan test, you open the door to stagnation. Getting to test for higher Dan is a great honor and certainly as much a motivation as anything else. You should always test when given the chance.

Oh my - it's certainly nothing as great as a Dan promotion, it's just a colour belt promotion Either way, I see your point.

 

[faerie2]

...
However, should the instructor put a belt in your hand w/o you paying for the testing fee, I think that that should mean he thinks you have earned it.

That's what I'm sitting here festering about - I didn't return the test form or pay the fee. I showed up on the test day practicing my patterns and kicks - so maybe he thought that I just *forgot* to hand it in the previous week?! I told them that I wasn't ready to test - maybe he just thought I was nervous instead of declining it. I don't know - I feel like a big dork either way. If he comes after me next week with a new belt, should I offer to pay the fee? Ugh, why did I have to make this so complicated. He's probably having a lovely vacation enjoying that I'm very likely agonizing over this for a whole week He has a crazy sense of humor like that.

 

[jim777]

Ugh, why did I have to make this so complicated. He's probably having a lovely vacation enjoying that I'm very likely agonizing over this for a whole week He has a crazy sense of humor like that.

He might be. :lol: The lifers are all a bit nutty (no offense Terry! ) No sense in driving yourself crazy though. Like I said, I think you've found yourself a special place. I would, if it were me, keep the filled out test form and the money in your gear bag, so you can pull it out with an "I'm sorry I forgot" should you be promoted. It would be a polite and respectful gesture to your Master and would make you feel better as well.

You know of course that you have to right back and tell everyone if you passed, right?

 

[terryl965]

He might be. :lol: The lifers are all a bit nutty (no offense Terry! ) No sense in driving yourself crazy though. Like I said, I think you've found yourself a special place. I would, if it were me, keep the filled out test form and the money in your gear bag, so you can pull it out with an "I'm sorry I forgot" should you be promoted. It would be a polite and respectful gesture to your Master and would make you feel better as well.

You know of course that you have to right back and tell everyone if you passed, right?

I am not offended I am a lifer and proud of it. Yes we tend to get a little crazy once in a while.:erg:

 

[Laurentkd]

I would say if a belt was handed to you just say something like "I am sorry sir! I didn't realize I was testing! I'll get the testing fee to you right now."
If he planned to test you then it is all good
If he only tested you because you showed up and he thought you wanted to test, I think it is better to just go with it.... he can always hold you a little longer at this current rank. And I believe it is better to do this than to try to explain yourself away in a way that makes him feel like he made a mistake.

 

[Flying Crane]

First off, I'm not a TKD person, so I have very little familiarity with how things run in a dojang. But one point has not been raised yet in the thread (or at least I've missed it), and I'd like to ask a question.

You mentioned skipping one level, and testing quickly for another, and my question is: is there a formal curriculum for each belt level, or is it more loose and informal where everyone is kind of learning and working on the same things in no particular order?

If there is a formal curriculum for each level, did you learn it when you made the double promotion, and again did you learn it when you tested quickly for the next one? I would think that would at least be mandatory and be a factor in determining how quickly one might progress in rank.

Getting back to your question, I think you can decline a promotion. A friend of mine used to train in a kenpo school where students would test, and rank would be offered by the teacher if he felt the test was good. But if the student was not happy with it, he/she could decline it and retest later. Of course what goes on in one school has no bearing on what goes on in another. But it's an example anyway.

If your teacher hands you a belt, I think you have every right to decline it, but I would suggest you try to discuss it with him privately, and even remind him that you did not pay the fee nor turn in the sheet, and that was a deliberate decision on your part, not an oversight. You did not intend to test on that day.

maybe the lesson learned here is: don't show up at the school on test day, if you don't intend to test. Stay home and practice there on that day.

 

[terryl965]

FC there is a curriculum inside the Art or sport of TKD but to few instructor follow them today. Most just do it on the fly. I know what is going though your head and you are right how can one really understand the Art then. Maybe that is why TKD is getting such abad rap in the eyes of the Martial Art world.

 

[faerie2]

I would say if a belt was handed to you just say something like "I am sorry sir! I didn't realize I was testing! I'll get the testing fee to you right now."
If he planned to test you then it is all good
If he only tested you because you showed up and he thought you wanted to test, I think it is better to just go with it.... he can always hold you a little longer at this current rank. And I believe it is better to do this than to try to explain yourself away in a way that makes him feel like he made a mistake.

That's an excellent suggestion, his English isn't that great and I know I would just end up confusing him in my fluster. Did I mention I feel like a big dork about the whole thing?
I really hope that if he and I were both aware that I wasn't testing that I didn't offend him by declining the test. I have to wait 8 flippin' days before I find out what the heck happened Friday!

 

[granfire]

That's an excellent suggestion, his English isn't that great and I know I would just end up confusing him in my fluster. Did I mention I feel like a big dork about the whole thing?
I really hope that if he and I were both aware that I wasn't testing that I didn't offend him by declining the test. I have to wait 8 flippin' days before I find out what the heck happened Friday!

I <3 dorks, I am probably the biggest one I know!

 

[Cirdan]

Nice. We have one 6 year old bb (poom) who has attended almost every class available for 3 years. I don't think 5 days/week earning a junior bb is a "miracle". Maybe we have different 6 year olds here than where you are.

Yes you must have. Most 6 yr olds on my planet do not have the neccecary coordination to start learning anything resembling MA. A 5 year old with this control would be exceptional. Starting at three years old is a joke plain and simple. Class for these would be about play and improving basic motor skills.

 

[faerie2]

Yes you must have. Most 6 yr olds on my planet do not have the neccecary coordination to start learning anything resembling MA. A 5 year old with this control would be exceptional. Starting at three years old is a joke plain and simple. Class for these would be about play and improving basic motor skills.

Wow - careful, you're starting to sound a little threatened and petty

Clearly you need to step out of your "planet" and spend more time with kids, they can do some amazing things. Many elite athletes began training at age 3-5, it's the beginning of the journey. So what if it improves motor skills, it also fosters interest in MA and helps them with basic skills, language, respect and history. My preschooler adores her classes and can do a roundhouse kick with far more accuracy and flexibility than a couple of newcomers to my adult class! This is why they have poom instead of dan. Kids learn far faster than "we" do and can pick up things with far more accuracy.