"I'm not worthy" or "I deserve it?"

[TraditionalTKD]

If your instructor didn't feel you were worthy he wouldn't recommend you to test in the first place.
However, not feeling you are worthy is much better than thinking you deserve to test. You deserve nothing until I decide you deserve it.

 

[Touch Of Death]

In my time in TKD, I've often had the conversation with people about ready to test (usually for black belt). Often times, their feelings are one or the other. (Either "A" 'I'm not worthy of such a rank" or "B" 'I deserve this belt after all the hard work I've put it.") TKD certainly doesn't have a lock on this mindset: I'm sure it's a natural part of MA training.

Did you have one or both of these mindsets when you were at any testing point? If you are an instructor, what have you said to students when they've expressed either A or B before their test?

My teacher gave me some valuable advice; if the people you respect tell you you are ready don't show disrespect by telling them you are not.
Sean

 

[IcemanSK]

My teacher gave me some valuable advice; if the people you respect tell you you are ready don't show disrespect by telling them you are not.
Sean

I agree with that completely. What I've come across that is harder for me to deal with is a cocky student who says, "They should give me that belt." I'm not talking confidence, but cockiness. A student with that attitude is very hard to deal with.

My attitude in my test last week was, "I'm grateful for the opportunity to test. I'm gonna show them the results of all of my hard work."

 

[tkd_jen]

We have scheduld testings and you are expected to get ready by test time, if not you wait. That said I always felt I was ready to test meaning I knew the material. However around brown belt I really started to feel like I should hang out at brown belt for a while. The reason I felt this was because in our organization brown is typically about 1 year from Black belt. I sure didn't feel like I'd be ready to test to Black in a year.

Then I realized I was compaing myself to the Black belts in our oganization, the instructors, assistants, etc, the ones that were always around. Then I started thinking about the students who tested to Black and then quit. It is really when the "journey vs. destination" thing really sank in for me. That's when I started to realize TKD is a personal competition with yourself, and you shouldn't compare yourself to others. Of course I didn't "deserve" a Black Belt when compared to my instructor. But compared to myself and the progress made in my journey, yeah, maybe I do. I still feel I have SOOOO much to learn though.

 

[exile]

Of course I didn't "deserve" a Black Belt when compared to my instructor. But compared to myself and the progress made in my journey, yeah, maybe I do. I still feel I have SOOOO much to learn though.

It's exactly like completing a graduate program, TKD_J. The highest degree is a Ph. D., but all that dissertation shows is that you have the competence to conduct research at the frontiers of current knowledge. A Ph.D. in that respect is like 1st Dan: you've got the basic tools to start pursuing martial knowledge and skill on your own. But in both cases, you're just at the very beginning of your career. The vast bulk of the knowledge you are capable of mastering is still out there, waiting for you to discover it. The point is, in either case, you now control enough of the basics, and understand them enough, to be able to guide yourself to some extent in pursuing those discoveries.

It's true that in the MA's, you keep working with your instructor, while graduate students are finished with their coursework at the point where they begin writing their dissertations. But they still attend conferences, symposia and so on in their specializations, and they still seek out and receive mentoring from established senior scientists and scholars in those specializations.

The two cases are really very parallel: in each of them, you know a lot, but there's a huge amount more you need to learn, and now you're ready to learn it, and perhaps to add your own discoveries to the sum of knowledge.

 

[tellner]

The real reason people say this to themselves and others? Honestly?

Ego.

Pride in one's own humility is one of the most common and irritating forms of egotism out there.

 

[exile]

The real reason people say this to themselves and others? Honestly?

Ego.

Pride in one's own humility is one of the most common and irritating forms of egotism out there.

Very acute, Todd! Tried to rep you but you're still on my current rep cycle...

In Ellis Peters' mediaeval Cadfael mysteries, one of the sins that both the Abbott and Cadfael himself keep having to warn people about is the sin of excessive, public humility. And in virtually every case where someone really indulges in that sin in the series, they turn out to be either a baddie or, at least, very self-serving and manipulative. It's not humility itself that's bad—it's the very public display which is the tipoff...

 

[tellner]

Thanks for the kind words. I always get "Ellis Peters" - the late Edith Pargeter - mixed up with "Peter Ellis" - Peter Tremayne - who wrote the wonderful Sister Fidelma series.

 

[exile]

Thanks for the kind words. I always get "Ellis Peters" - the late Edith Pargeter - mixed up with "Peter Ellis" - Peter Tremayne - who wrote the wonderful Sister Fidelma series.

Another mediaeval-cleric detective series, by any chance? I hope so—I love those, though very few do it as well as Ellis/Edith Peters/Pargeter. I frequently get her confused with an other E. Peters—Elizabeth—who writes mysteries, but distinctly non-medieval ones. Thanks for the pointer to Peter Ellis—must look for it.

 

[tellner]

Seventh Century Ireland. The hero is a nun/priestess in the Celtic Christian Church. She's also a legate, permitted to act as an advocate and to judge legal cases up to the level of kings. Her travels take her all over Eire and as far as Rome. Good stuff.

 

[exile]

Seventh Century Ireland. The hero is a nun/priestess in the Celtic Christian Church. She's also a legate, permitted to act as an advocate and to judge legal cases up to the level of kings. Her travels take her all over Eire and as far as Rome. Good stuff.

Ogod, I'll never get any work done again. Mediaeval Celtic Ireland... it's hopeless. I have a sabbatical coming up next year and I'm gonna spend it reading this series, and there's not a damned thing I can do about it!!!

Thanks for the info, Todd... Peter Tremayne`Ellis', you say? ... wait, I've just brought up all the titles in the `Sister Fidelma' series...

 

[matt.m]

I have kind of taken the humble mindset in front of my GM, I would say things like "So and so is better at this poomsea" or something of this nature.

He would say something to the effect of "You are good to." If you question whether you passed the test after confirmation then in essence you are questioning the graders judgement.

It is no secret that I was granted a dan ranking without the physical test in judo......however I have won 33 gold and 7 silver for competition representing the Marines, I won the Pan-Am games.....

After a bit of discussion with my seniors and peers I was told that I deserved it.

So I don't know......rank isn't something anyone is "Entitled" to, it is earned.......I have never had the problem of believing the "I am not worthy" of thinking that I automatically deserve it either.

I look at belt ranking like the Sgt. Chevrons I had in the Marines......I earned them.