Requiring Patience For The Black Belt And For Rank Advancement In General

[HighKick]

So if a sensei is going to require patience for rank advancement he could do it by simply having minimum time requirements for rank advancement. Before you can advance in rank you have to be at your current rank for a minimal length of time, within reason. Before you can be a black belt you have to be a brown belt for a reasonable minimal length of time, once you've been a brown belt for that minimum length of time you should then be eligible to test for the black belt.

Most schools do exactly that.

 

[isshinryuronin]

So if a sensei is going to require patience for rank advancement he could do it by simply having minimum time requirements for rank advancement. Before you can advance in rank you have to be at your current rank for a minimal length of time, within reason.

From white to black belt the emphasis is on technical execution (90% with 10% effort, attitude, etc.). I see no reason to keep a student from progressing as fast as his ability allows. A large school may find it necessary to have set times for testing, every three months for example. In this case I would recognize the quicker students by skipping them a grade (or two) during their journey to black belt. No reason they should be held back.

After black belt a new phase arises where the emphasis starts on the more non-technical aspects of the art. These aspects often require depth of understanding, self-exploration, internalization, maturation and "enlightenment" that cannot be accelerated simply by physical ability or even experience. Like a good wine or Scotch, aging is required. (Drinkers of Coors or Budweiser may not appreciate this fact.) At the black belt level increasing lengths of time between degrees I think are needed for this to happen.

Time in grade requirements after black belt also helps the student take his mind off the next promotion, the goal, and allows him to concentrate on the process. If the student does not have the discipline and patience for this, he will not be able to develop the attributes of a higher-grade black belt anyway, and so his quitting will do no one any harm.

 

[PhotonGuy]

PhotonGuy, do you mind if I ask you a question? And feel free not to answer. But are you training somewhere? What does your instructor say about this?

Yes I am training at a Goju Ryu dojo, my instructor does have a five year time requirement to get a black belt, you have to be a student at his dojo for at least five years before you're eligible for the first degree black belt but aside from that I don't know of any other time requirements he has.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Most schools do exactly that.

Well the way the guy described it, and I don't know details or anything, is that his sensei would tell you when you were going to test for the black belt. Brown belt students would have to be told before they could test for the black belt because his sensei required patience in addition to skill, so even if a brown belt student was skilled enough for the black belt the sensei might not let him test for it yet because he wanted the student to be patient. Again I don't know details and I could be wrong with my assumption but the way it sounded to me was that a brown belt student would have to wait indefinitely, just because the sensei wanted him to be patient.

 

[HighKick]

Well the way the guy described it, and I don't know details or anything, is that his sensei would tell you when you were going to test for the black belt. Brown belt students would have to be told before they could test for the black belt because his sensei required patience in addition to skill, so even if a brown belt student was skilled enough for the black belt the sensei might not let him test for it yet because he wanted the student to be patient. Again I don't know details and I could be wrong with my assumption but the way it sounded to me was that a brown belt student would have to wait indefinitely, just because the sensei wanted him to be patient.

This is also true at most schools. There is no static timeline and some degree of instructor subjectivity as to when a person tests for any belt.
It is never on automatic.

 

[ap Oweyn]

Yes I am training at a Goju Ryu dojo, my instructor does have a five year time requirement to get a black belt, you have to be a student at his dojo for at least five years before you're eligible for the first degree black belt but aside from that I don't know of any other time requirements he has.

And are you okay with that arrangement? Are you happy with the style and your instructor? If so, it sounds like you're all set.

 

[PhotonGuy]

This is also true at most schools. There is no static timeline and some degree of instructor subjectivity as to when a person tests for any belt.
It is never on automatic.

Well I can see about having a minimum time requirement, before you can be a black belt you have to be a brown belt for a certain length of time and only after you've been a brown belt for that length of time can you test for the black belt, but why wouldn't a student be eligible to test after they've fulfilled that time requirement? If they've fulfilled the time requirement that shows they've got patience so they should be eligible to test.

 

[PhotonGuy]

And are you okay with that arrangement? Are you happy with the style and your instructor? If so, it sounds like you're all set.

My position and viewpoints that I've mentioned in this thread I do not hold because of my current style and instructor but rather because of my experiences with a past instructor and also experiences with other people in the martial arts world. To describe my past experiences with my past style and instructor I would start a new thread for that.

 

[MuayJitsu]

I think if you’re good enough to be a black belt then you should be given a black belt and not have to play silly games

 

[drop bear]

I think if you’re good enough to be a black belt then you should be given a black belt and not have to play silly games

It has some merit.

The counter argument is that black belts represent the club and so they should have the right kind of character.

But clubs that don't have the right sort of character turn that idea in to a pyramid scheme.

 

[HighKick]

Well I can see about having a minimum time requirement, before you can be a black belt you have to be a brown belt for a certain length of time and only after you've been a brown belt for that length of time can you test for the black belt, but why wouldn't a student be eligible to test after they've fulfilled that time requirement? If they've fulfilled the time requirement that shows they've got patience so they should be eligible to test.

Still too many unknowns. For all we know you met all but the last hour of requirements 10-years ago, then showed up, worked out for an hour and expected to test. And there are Several variables to this equation.

 

[ap Oweyn]

I think this discussion is mostly highlighting the highly subjective nature of the black belt as metric, which is why I haven't put much stock in them over the years. It's not that they're meaningless. It's just that their meaning is very difficult to discern without being immersed in the process by which they were earned. And if you're immersed in that process, you probably don't need the symbol in the first place. But I do get the value of symbols. It would nag at me if I'd never earned any black belt. Rightly or wrongly, it would have nagged at me a bit.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Still too many unknowns. For all we know you met all but the last hour of requirements 10-years ago, then showed up, worked out for an hour and expected to test. And there are Several variables to this equation.

Again, I don't know the details. I didn't speak much with the fellow to know too much about how his sensei functioned in terms of rank advancement, all I know, based on what he said, was that the sensei tells you when you're going to test and it was because he required patience so for instance if the next belt for you was black belt, even if you were skilled enough for it he might not let you test for it yet because he wants you to be patient. As I said before, I don't see why a reasonable minimum time requirement wouldn't be adequate if you're going to require patience.

If a student has been going to the dojo consistently and they've met the minimum time requirements for their rank I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to test for their next rank, including the rank of black belt if that is their next rank. They've shown patience by meeting the time requirement so there would be no reason to hold them back from testing, so in the case of the fellow Im describing above, I see no reason why he would tell students when they're going to test instead of just requiring them to meet the minimum time requirements before they can sign up for their next test.