Recent issues

[JowGaWolf]

Yep like I've repeated hundreds of times now...I have taught non stop for 6 months every single class since. It's not like I'm bitching about taking 1 or 2 lessons here and there but every single class week in and week out and paying the instructor for it. I've been running both kids and adult classes since I get there early because it's more easy for my travel arrangements. So I'm teaching from 6-9, 3 days a week and paying £7 a lesson to so. The fact I've done that for so long without complaint should show I'm committed but frankly I won't be a doormat

Definitely don't let them take advantage of you. Speak to the other instructors and let them know that you want to stop teaching so you can train. If they say no, then leave the school. Don't be silent with how you feel. It'll just fester and make you feel worse.

 

[lklawson]

Good because I don't

If you say so. <shrug>

Are you always this angry?

 

[lklawson]

Definitely don't let them take advantage of you. Speak to the other instructors and let them know that you want to stop teaching so you can train. If they say no, then leave the school. Don't be silent with how you feel. It'll just fester and make you feel worse.

This is where he gives you reasons that he's not going to leave but he still feels victimized.

 

[Headhunter]

If you say so. <shrug>

Are you always this angry?

Umm I'm not angry saying I think you're wrong doesn't mean someone's angry

 

[Headhunter]

This is where he gives you reasons that he's not going to leave but he still feels victimized.

Ummm what? How about not putting words in peoples mouths First I've not said anything about whether I'll leave or not second second I've never said anything about being victimised....

 

[Headhunter]

So if you don't teach you don't love your style....wow that's some real brainwashing and emotional blackmail going on there. If an instructor says that to someone the person will feel pressured to teach to prove they love it. Then the instructor gets free labour and his club run for him while stealing the guys money at the same time...agree with headhunter that absolutely sounds like a cult

Oh agreed that statement reeks of emotional blackmail if any instructor tried saying to me I'd be out the door before he finished talking

 

[drop bear]

Ummm what? How about not putting words in peoples mouths First I've not said anything about whether I'll leave or not second second I've never said anything about being victimised....

Ok. Your situation as been paraphrased in a fairly brutal way. So that you look at it in a brutal way. When posed in that manner you say you would leave in a heart beat.

So you need to resolve how your situation is different from the one described,fix the situation or come to terms with it.

Because so far this is a rant about how you are being victimised. Without a single move towards a resolution.

 

[drop bear]

This is where he gives you reasons that he's not going to leave but he still feels victimized.

Nuance is going to be wasted effort.

 

[jobo]

When did I say that I feel part of the club Im just not going to call them my family and I don't think it's sad at all I've got my real family and I've got my friends

its sad you feel like its just a commercial arrangement and you have no affinity to your fellow members. Perhaps your just not that type of person

 

[JR 137]

You don't have an attitude which will let you flourish in what is usually called "traditional asian martial arts."

You will never be happy, long-term, in those sort of arts because what you describe is the default "culture" of vast majority. It's also pretty much the "culture" of most culturally related martial arts including Indonesian, Filipino, and, yes, even the majority of HEMA. Most martial arts instructors are not actually making any money. They almost always have a "day job" and teaching martial arts is actually a loosing financial proposition which they frequently prop up with their day job. They teach because they love their martial art and they expect long term students to feel the same.

You don't. It's not a judgment of your character, just a statement of fact. You do not have the personality necessary to practice asian martial arts, as it is taught in most places, for the long term.

Go do MMA, boxing, or maybe BJJ or something else. You're not going to last in Karate.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

So if he doesn't love to teach, he doesn't love his art? I'm really trying to wrap my head around what you're saying here.

People love what they do for different reasons.

I trained "traditional" Japanese karate for almost 7 years, took time off because life got in the way, then resumed almost 17 years later. I've been back 2.5 years now. I taught during my first stint because I liked teaching. I wasn't forced into it, and my sensei was allowing me to train for very cheap. Teaching wasn't on my radar, but my sensei thought another classmate and I had the personality, knowledge, and ability to become very good teachers. I tried it, and I started enjoying it, so I taught more often. We weren't asked to teach because he wanted to hang out and do other things. There were higher ranked and ability students who were never approached to teach.

I'm now going on 41 and am a school teacher. Being in another "traditional" Japanese karate organization, I have next to no desire to teach. I like helping out classmates before and after class, and I enjoyed helping teach my daughter's class when she was there. I wouldn't mind teaching a class or two if my CI asked me to when he's away. But regularly teaching? Zero desire to. And I LOVE karate. It dominates my thoughts when I'm not at work or hanging out with my family when I'm not in the dojo. I'd like to think my knowledge of it combined with my physical education teaching experience would make me a very effective karate teacher. But I'm at a point in my life where I want to train and learn karate.

Not wanting to teach doesn't make me a bad person, karateka, nor anything else. It's just not my thing. It has absolutely nothing to do with a lack of love for the art. Not everyone fits the same mold. Thinking they should is absurd. Thinking if someone doesn't want to teach will mean they won't stick around long or they should take a different art is even more absurd. There's several people at my dojo who've been around for 2-3 decades who have no desire to teach class. They like helping and working students individually, but they have zero desire to run class. And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be very effective in that role. They'd be quite effective in a tutoring role, if you will, but they don't have the personality to regularly run a class. Even the smartest and most effective people in any field can't teach. That's just the way it works.

 

[jobo]

So if he doesn't love to teach, he doesn't love his art? I'm really trying to wrap my head around what you're saying here.

People love what they do for different reasons.

I trained "traditional" Japanese karate for almost 7 years, took time off because life got in the way, then resumed almost 17 years later. I've been back 2.5 years now. I taught during my first stint because I liked teaching. I wasn't forced into it, and my sensei was allowing me to train for very cheap. Teaching wasn't on my radar, but my sensei thought another classmate and I had the personality, knowledge, and ability to become very good teachers. I tried it, and I started enjoying it, so I taught more often. We weren't asked to teach because he wanted to hang out and do other things. There were higher ranked and ability students who were never approached to teach.

I'm now going on 41 and am a school teacher. Being in another "traditional" Japanese karate organization, I have next to no desire to teach. I like helping out classmates before and after class, and I enjoyed helping teach my daughter's class when she was there. I wouldn't mind teaching a class or two if my CI asked me to when he's away. But regularly teaching? Zero desire to. And I LOVE karate. It dominates my thoughts when I'm not at work or hanging out with my family when I'm not in the dojo. I'd like to think my knowledge of it combined with my physical education teaching experience would make me a very effective karate teacher. But I'm at a point in my life where I want to train and learn karate.

Not wanting to teach doesn't make me a bad person, karateka, nor anything else. It's just not my thing. It has absolutely nothing to do with a lack of love for the art. Not everyone fits the same mold. Thinking they should is absurd. Thinking if someone doesn't want to teach will mean they won't stick around long or they should take a different art is even more absurd. There's several people at my dojo who've been around for 2-3 decades who have no desire to teach class. They like helping and working students individually, but they have zero desire to run class. And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be very effective in that role. They'd be quite effective in a tutoring role, if you will, but they don't have the personality to regularly run a class. Even the smartest and most effective people in any field can't teach. That's just the way it works.

it doesnt seem to be his problem that he can't teach, sp much as he is feeling ripped off, that he pays two pounds an hour for his lesson, but gets to spend that time teaching rather than being taught. Two pounds for our American friends isn't enough to buy a cup of coffee. But this amount is causing him to consider. Going to another school

 

[CB Jones]

it doesnt seem to be his problem that he can't teach, sp much as he is feeling ripped off, that he pays two pounds an hour for his lesson, but gets to spend that time teaching rather than being taught. Two pounds for our American friends isn't enough to buy a cup of coffee. But this amount is causing him to consider. Going to another school

In for a penny, in for a pound...

 

[lklawson]

So if he doesn't love to teach, he doesn't love his art? I'm really trying to wrap my head around what you're saying here.
.

That's because I didn't say that.

 

[JR 137]

That's because I didn't say that.

Ok. So what is it about his "attitude" that'll keep him from "flourish(ing) in what is usually called 'traditional Asian martial arts?'"

I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing.

Please don't take this as argumentative. I'm just confused.

 

[Tames D]

Go do MMA, boxing, or maybe BJJ or something else. You're not going to last in Karate.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this statement. Headhunter has over 20 years training in karate and has earned his black belt. You might want to rethink this

 

[Mark Lynn]

So I got my black belt in kenpo last year and I was very happy with that but the problem is since then I've been asked to teach a lot...like almost every single lesson since. Now I don't mind helping out the odd time but frankly I'm not a teacher that's not why I turn up every class. I'm there to train plain and simple and I told my instructor this before I came back and he agreed I wouldn't have to. But my main problem is there are 4 other higher dan black belts than me there but they spend their time working with each other and training leaving me and another brown belt to teach the younger students. Like I said I'm not bitching about helping out and I'm happy to if there's ever bad numbers but literally every session I'm roped into it while the higher black belts workout together and frankly I'm paying for my classes so I'm really I'm paying to teach my instructor to teach his class....I will be having a word about it because it's just making it unenjoyable. I'm not a teacher I don't enjoy that aspect I'll do it if I must but quite honestly I feel like I'm being made a mug of.

I'm wondering why you brought this here to this forum in the first place? No one here can help you in this situation and everyone has basically said the same things. You have two camps really. Those who believe you should teach or that teaching is being part of helping out running of the dojo, part of the family, or being part of the dojo training experience, and those that see this as a simple business arrangement that has been abused.

However both camps really say you need to talk with the owner since only he can resolve it.

Now in an earlier post in another thread you mentioned that your instructor was a 7th dan, so perhaps this is what is going on. Your instructor is training the other higher dan ranks because they have put their time in helping out and really a 7th dan shouldn't be teaching lower ranked students when he had lower dan ranks that can do it, Instead he should be teaching the higher dan ranks. You are the lowest dan rank so you are the one stuck teaching. Prior to your becoming a black belt (instructor) he had to take time away from the higher ranked students so he or they could fill in and teach the lower ranked students. It's like having a person with multi degreed education (MBA, PHD or whatever teaching middle school instead of college students) when there are lessor qualified individuals (teachers with a four year degree) that could teach those classes.

I agree that being forced to teach every class isn't right, especially if the instructor is only sitting behind a desk fooling around. However having lower ranks teach so the higher ranks get to learn from the more senior instructors is a common practice. Because it is understood that your time will come as well.

Now if that is what is actually going on and you approach the instructor(s) in the bitchy manner which it seems you've brought to this board then if I was your instructor I'd explain the situation and if you thought that was unfair than I would tell you "Well since you want to train with the higher dans without putting in the time that they did helping the school out then the instructors (dan grade) price is this $$$$$$$, BTW I was having you off set that price by teaching, giving you the discounted price since you were helping out" "But since you don't want that then pay up or hit the door."

Seriously what is the instructor going to lose if you leave? He will have to take someone else (himself or another higher dan) to teach while you take up their time for the same fee as you paid when you needed their instruction more (as a lower rank) You just want to train train train and learn from them the higher skill levels but not help them by allowing them to train with the higher level instructor for the same amount you paid as a beginner. I'd raise your fees, they aren't losing anything.

Your not really connected to the dojo, you don't feel obligation, and if the feelings mutual then I wouldn't sweat it (if I was your instructor) if you chose to leave. They might be trying to run you off by having you teach when they know you don't want to.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm wondering why you brought this here to this forum in the first place?

My guess is to vent a little. It was clear that it was building up. Hopefully he got a lot of that frustration out.

 

[JR 137]

I'm wondering why you brought this here to this forum in the first place? No one here can help you in this situation and everyone has basically said the same things. You have two camps really. Those who believe you should teach or that teaching is being part of helping out running of the dojo, part of the family, or being part of the dojo training experience, and those that see this as a simple business arrangement that has been abused.

However both camps really say you need to talk with the owner since only he can resolve it.

Now in an earlier post in another thread you mentioned that your instructor was a 7th dan, so perhaps this is what is going on. Your instructor is training the other higher dan ranks because they have put their time in helping out and really a 7th dan shouldn't be teaching lower ranked students when he had lower dan ranks that can do it, Instead he should be teaching the higher dan ranks. You are the lowest dan rank so you are the one stuck teaching. Prior to your becoming a black belt (instructor) he had to take time away from the higher ranked students so he or they could fill in and teach the lower ranked students. It's like having a person with multi degreed education (MBA, PHD or whatever teaching middle school instead of college students) when there are lessor qualified individuals (teachers with a four year degree) that could teach those classes.

I agree that being forced to teach every class isn't right, especially if the instructor is only sitting behind a desk fooling around. However having lower ranks teach so the higher ranks get to learn from the more senior instructors is a common practice. Because it is understood that your time will come as well.

Now if that is what is actually going on and you approach the instructor(s) in the bitchy manner which it seems you've brought to this board then if I was your instructor I'd explain the situation and if you thought that was unfair than I would tell you "Well since you want to train with the higher dans without putting in the time that they did helping the school out then the instructors (dan grade) price is this $$$$$$$, BTW I was having you off set that price by teaching, giving you the discounted price since you were helping out" "But since you don't want that then pay up or hit the door."

Seriously what is the instructor going to lose if you leave? He will have to take someone else (himself or another higher dan) to teach while you take up their time for the same fee as you paid when you needed their instruction more (as a lower rank) You just want to train train train and learn from them the higher skill levels but not help them by allowing them to train with the higher level instructor for the same amount you paid as a beginner. I'd raise your fees, they aren't losing anything.

Your not really connected to the dojo, you don't feel obligation, and if the feelings mutual then I wouldn't sweat it (if I was your instructor) if you chose to leave. They might be trying to run you off by having you teach when they know you don't want to.

Regarding the CI taking time out of training the higher dan guys, it seems more of a scheduling problem to me.

I don't agree lower dan ranks should teach beginners and intermediates so that the CI can teach the higher ranks. I think the CI should teach all levels. I'm not saying he/she should teach every single class, but he/she should teach every level and give them just as much attention as each other.

If he/she wants time to focus on the higher ranks, make a higher ranks only class. If there's genuinely too many students to be able to do this and no flexibility in the schedule, then he's in over his head and he should stop taking in new students.

I've seen it before. Some teachers think teaching lower ranks is beneath them; they just want to teach advanced students. Nonsense. People join to learn from the CI. There's no problem with assistants teaching lower ranks, but the CI must teach them too. Even Tadashi Nakamura (of Kyokushin fame and founder of Seido Juku) teaches white belt classes and colored belt classes regularly. And he gives them just as much attention as he does anyone else. He's not the only one who teaches them, but he's on the schedule so students know exactly when if they so choose. And his dojo is huge.

The most important rank is white belt; no one has gone on to become a black belt or any other rank without being a white belt first. If a CI can't make time for them, he/she should reevaluate why he's doing what he/she's doing.

I'm sure many will disagree. I'm sure many will say there's not enough time in the day. To that I say work the schedule out.

 

[Headhunter]

That's because I didn't say that.

That's exactly what you said

 

[Headhunter]

I'm wondering why you brought this here to this forum in the first place? No one here can help you in this situation and everyone has basically said the same things. You have two camps really. Those who believe you should teach or that teaching is being part of helping out running of the dojo, part of the family, or being part of the dojo training experience, and those that see this as a simple business arrangement that has been abused.

However both camps really say you need to talk with the owner since only he can resolve it.

Now in an earlier post in another thread you mentioned that your instructor was a 7th dan, so perhaps this is what is going on. Your instructor is training the other higher dan ranks because they have put their time in helping out and really a 7th dan shouldn't be teaching lower ranked students when he had lower dan ranks that can do it, Instead he should be teaching the higher dan ranks. You are the lowest dan rank so you are the one stuck teaching. Prior to your becoming a black belt (instructor) he had to take time away from the higher ranked students so he or they could fill in and teach the lower ranked students. It's like having a person with multi degreed education (MBA, PHD or whatever teaching middle school instead of college students) when there are lessor qualified individuals (teachers with a four year degree) that could teach those classes.

I agree that being forced to teach every class isn't right, especially if the instructor is only sitting behind a desk fooling around. However having lower ranks teach so the higher ranks get to learn from the more senior instructors is a common practice. Because it is understood that your time will come as well.

Now if that is what is actually going on and you approach the instructor(s) in the bitchy manner which it seems you've brought to this board then if I was your instructor I'd explain the situation and if you thought that was unfair than I would tell you "Well since you want to train with the higher dans without putting in the time that they did helping the school out then the instructors (dan grade) price is this $$$$$$$, BTW I was having you off set that price by teaching, giving you the discounted price since you were helping out" "But since you don't want that then pay up or hit the door."

Seriously what is the instructor going to lose if you leave? He will have to take someone else (himself or another higher dan) to teach while you take up their time for the same fee as you paid when you needed their instruction more (as a lower rank) You just want to train train train and learn from them the higher skill levels but not help them by allowing them to train with the higher level instructor for the same amount you paid as a beginner. I'd raise your fees, they aren't losing anything.

Your not really connected to the dojo, you don't feel obligation, and if the feelings mutual then I wouldn't sweat it (if I was your instructor) if you chose to leave. They might be trying to run you off by having you teach when they know you don't want to.

Umm this is a martial art forum and the subjects connected to martial arts so...