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Headhunter said:
So what? You're belittling me for that?
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No. I'm implying that you might not be forthcoming with all of the details and that you might be over stating some things or leaving out others in order to bolster sympathetic feelings for your case.

Nice amount of arrogance
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Are you familiar with what Queen Gertrude said in Hamlet?

you have first saying if you don't teach you don't like your art
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Again, that's not what I wrote, despite your continued misunderstanding.

then talking down on someone who takes longer to get a belt...nice guy you are
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Good of you to notice. I got a niceness award. I used to have a Humble Badge but they took it back because I was wearing it so much.
 
Headhunter said:
Probably loads? You know everyone who ever trains do you? Get off your high horse and realise your way isn't the only way
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OK, I'll try to explain this again. I may try to use small words.

I didn't say it was the only way. In fact, specifically wrote that it isn't and suggested that you go to MMA, Boxing, or something else where the "requirement to teach/assumption that you will teach" isn't a part of that martial culture.

I didn't say it was my way. Care to make a guess as to why I didn't? I'll give you a hint. "I'll take 'because it isn't' for $20, Alex." Anything else is your unfounded assumption.

I did write that teaching out of some for of social obligation is common Asian based martial arts, particularly as expressed in the U.S.

I did write that most instructors of Asian based martial arts, particularly as expressed in the U.S., are not teaching for financial gain (usually at a net financial loss, actually). Instead, they teach because they love their martial art and have a reasonable expectation that long-term students will also love their martial art and will make what the instructor sees as reasonable sacrifices for that love.

Someone reading what I wrote objectively, not angrily, might have kinda seen that. :P
 
Could it be that since you got your black belt you are now a representative of that school.

And the instructor feels it is important that you learn how to teach while you are under his supervision since you now represent his dojo.

When that instructor promoted you he in essence vouched for you and now his name is forever attached to you. So now he has a vested interest in you and maybe he wants to see how you do in an instructing role.
 
I am still curious as to whether you have spoken to your instructor about this?

I think all of this can be solved with some communication between yourself and your instructor.

It does not seem like any progress is being made in this thread--it seems like this thread, like so many others, is devolving into meaningless insults and further misunderstandings.
 
CB Jones said:
Could it be that since you got your black belt you are now a representative of that school.

And the instructor feels it is important that you learn how to teach while you are under his supervision since you now represent his dojo.

When that instructor promoted you he in essence vouched for you and now his name is forever attached to you. So now he has a vested interest in you and maybe he wants to see how you do in an instructing role.
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Could be.

I think it's probably more likely that the instructor just expects that he and the other black belts will teach and hasn't ever considered that someone might think it unreasonable.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
Some thoughts ...

If an instructor is teaching for love of the art and expects his senior students to also teach for love of the art, he shouldn't be charging those students for the privilege of doing the teaching themselves. Whether you see the teacher-student relationship as a financial interaction or as a familial bond or something in-between, a teacher shouldn't be charging a student money to not teach them. As Headhunter describes it, he has paid for six months of classes but has not received any instruction during that time. I don't see that as a "reasonable sacrifice", I see that as being ripped off.

I love teaching and have gotten a lot out of it, but not everyone cares for teaching or is good at it. It's one thing to ask your senior students to give teaching a try and help out on occasion. I think that's pretty reasonable. However if your lower ranked students are being taught entirely by someone who doesn't want to be teaching, then those lower ranked students are being done a disservice, because the teacher's disinterest will inevitably lead to lower quality instruction.

The idea of giving back to the school isn't something peculiar to Asian martial arts. I've been teaching at my current gym for about 6-7 years now. The way it started was like this: We offer 30+ classes per week and the Owner/Chief Instructor is ... organizationally challenged. We had a situation where some of the BJJ instructors were flaking out and not showing up to teach their scheduled class and not arranging for coverage. I was the highest ranked person on hand and I didn't want the students who showed up to not have a class, so I jumped in and taught what I could. Eventually I ended up as a regularly scheduled instructor and I also cover for other teachers when they can't make it. I do this without pay because at this point the school is just making enough to pay rent and can't afford to pay the instructors.

However:
There are more classes available than the ones I teach and I don't have to pay for them.
I get to use the school when teaching private lessons which students pay me for.
My instructor periodically gives me some personal instruction or gym gear. (I got a nice gi from him for Christmas a couple of years ago.)
My instructor takes time out to thank me for my contributions to the gym just about every single time I see him.

TLDR: loyalty goes both ways.
 
So yes I have gotten things sorted I texted the instructor to meet up today for a chat outside the school since I thought it'd be easier to do away from the school so there's no bad vides in the class in case things did turn sour. But I explained my position of how I feel and he agreed it was to much what I was doing and apologised saying he got caught up in other things and he'll make adjustments. I said I'm happy to teach the kids class regularly since I'm there anyway and I'll assist the adults but I do want to train as well and he agreed he'd get the others to help out as well. He did offer some money back but I declined. I know if I go into that route it can lead to other issues but he said he would give me a new gi which I'd asked to be ordered since mines full of holes for free. So hopefully things are sorted and it can all move on smoothly
 
Headhunter said:
So yes I have gotten things sorted I texted the instructor to meet up today for a chat outside the school since I thought it'd be easier to do away from the school so there's no bad vides in the class in case things did turn sour. But I explained my position of how I feel and he agreed it was to much what I was doing and apologised saying he got caught up in other things and he'll make adjustments. I said I'm happy to teach the kids class regularly since I'm there anyway and I'll assist the adults but I do want to train as well and he agreed he'd get the others to help out as well. He did offer some money back but I declined. I know if I go into that route it can lead to other issues but he said he would give me a new gi which I'd asked to be ordered since mines full of holes for free. So hopefully things are sorted and it can all move on smoothly
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Glad to hear it. Sounds like your teacher knew the right thing to do once you brought it to his attention.
 
Tony Dismukes said:
Glad to hear it. Sounds like your teacher knew the right thing to do once you brought it to his attention.
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Funny thing is people are assuming I was angry about it. I wasn't angry at my instructor I was frustrated at the situation but not angry. No ones perfect we all make mistakes and do things wrong. Every single person no matter from Bruce lee, to ed Parker to the Gracie's no ones a perfect instructor. All I was doing here was stating my facts. I have a ton of respect for my instructor as a martial artist and as a person but that doesn't mean I won't say if I think he's doing things wrong which is all this was
 
Headhunter said:
Funny thing is people are assuming I was angry about it. I wasn't angry at my instructor I was frustrated at the situation but not angry. No ones perfect we all make mistakes and do things wrong. Every single person no matter from Bruce lee, to ed Parker to the Gracie's no ones a perfect instructor. All I was doing here was stating my facts. I have a ton of respect for my instructor as a martial artist and as a person but that doesn't mean I won't say if I think he's doing things wrong which is all this was
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I'm not sure why, but most of your posts on this forum come off angrily to me, even when it's obvious that you're not.
 
lklawson said:
Well, frankly, yeah. It's way, way, way outside the bounds of normal that something about it doesn't quite sniff right.

There could be several different reasons for it but most often the reason is that it's not 20 years of continuous training, and I have no doubt that your experience is any different. While it could be that he's declined to test for 15 straight years (going on the rule of thumb of 3-5 years training to shodan), it much more common, and therefore more likely, that, while he started 20 years ago, he has had long periods of not attending a school.

And that would be consistent with what he technically wrote but not consistent with what he was implying.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
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Kenpo is not Shotokhan.
 
Headhunter said:
So yes I have gotten things sorted I texted the instructor to meet up today for a chat outside the school since I thought it'd be easier to do away from the school so there's no bad vides in the class in case things did turn sour. But I explained my position of how I feel and he agreed it was to much what I was doing and apologised saying he got caught up in other things and he'll make adjustments. I said I'm happy to teach the kids class regularly since I'm there anyway and I'll assist the adults but I do want to train as well and he agreed he'd get the others to help out as well. He did offer some money back but I declined. I know if I go into that route it can lead to other issues but he said he would give me a new gi which I'd asked to be ordered since mines full of holes for free. So hopefully things are sorted and it can all move on smoothly
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so you went to tell him their was 0 chance off you teaching any class and came away having agreed to teach class, well played that man. Are you in charge of britex negations by any chance
 
lklawson said:
You've been doing American Kenpo continuously for 20 YEARS and only just 6 months ago finally earned black belt?
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It took me about 15 years to earn my black belt. I took about 2 years off total during that time, so 13 overall years. I spent about 5 years 1 rank away from black belt...I just didn't care enough to perfect the BB material, and was focusing on my basics.
 
jobo said:
so you went to tell him their was 0 chance off you teaching any class and came away having agreed to teach class, well played that man. Are you in charge of britex negations by any chance
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Um no I never said that before I started I didn't want to at all. But I've stated numerous times on this thread that I don't mind helping out time to time as long as it's not every single lesson.
 
kempodisciple said:
It took me about 15 years to earn my black belt. I took about 2 years off total during that time, so 13 overall years. I spent about 5 years 1 rank away from black belt...I just didn't care enough to perfect the BB material, and was focusing on my basics.
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Pretty much same with me I got to first brown quick enough but after that I knew all the techniques and forms and there wouldn't be any new material to learn apart from a form so I just didn't see the point in testing
 
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