Headhunter
Senior Master
Sure you can get a free personal demonstration of my kenpo..meet me in the car park in 2 hours lolLet me see some of your kenpo, then I will tell you what you should do.
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Headhunter
Senior Master
Ummm where did I say that...you make your point I state my opinion about your point
JR 137
Grandmaster
I liken it to my daughters' gymnastics school. I pay tuition, and they train in return. They have fundraisers and other things they need help with to keep the travel teams' costs down. I'm not helping them out. I'll throw them $5 to wash my car when they do that or buy some cookies if I like them when they sell them, but nothing more. Part of it is my daughters aren't on the team (they're 4 and 6, so no team is offered). But moreso that I don't feel any sense of community there. I've never been called my first (or last) name. I get a smile and a hi when I walk in, but that's about it. I've never had a conversation with anyone there beyond "here's my credit card." And no one's initiated one. Not her direct coaches nor anyone else. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't bother me at all and I'm not looking for them to kiss my butt nor anything else. I'm a paying customer, and that's it. If their school was like the dojo, I'd be involved. But it's not. I've seen dojos like my kids' gymnastics school. I've got no problem with them, but they're just not for me. If my dojo was like gymnastics, I wouldn't pitch in. I'd have better things to do with my time.
marques
Master Black Belt
You are not alone... And I was paying more than it was supposed to.
lklawson
Grandmaster
You don't have an attitude which will let you flourish in what is usually called "traditional asian martial arts."
You will never be happy, long-term, in those sort of arts because what you describe is the default "culture" of vast majority. It's also pretty much the "culture" of most culturally related martial arts including Indonesian, Filipino, and, yes, even the majority of HEMA. Most martial arts instructors are not actually making any money. They almost always have a "day job" and teaching martial arts is actually a loosing financial proposition which they frequently prop up with their day job. They teach because they love their martial art and they expect long term students to feel the same.
You don't. It's not a judgment of your character, just a statement of fact. You do not have the personality necessary to practice asian martial arts, as it is taught in most places, for the long term.
Go do MMA, boxing, or maybe BJJ or something else. You're not going to last in Karate.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
lklawson
Grandmaster
Bill may write things I don't particularly agree with, but he never writes "nonsense."
Headhunter
Senior Master
Well I think he does
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I am sure we here in Martialtalk Land are not privy to the full picture of what is going on.
I'll summarize some thoughts.
Part of the progression in training often includes helping with those who are junior to you. The amount of help you are expected to give can vary, depending on a lot of things. However, you should still be getting your own training as well.
If you have unwillingly swapped your training time for teaching time, and you are no longer training, then youve got a problem.
In my opinion, the better schools foster a feeling of family, but the respect needs to go both ways. There should be give-and-take, and it should go in both directions. It should be more than just a financial transaction. There should be a lot of room for this to be expressed in a way that is meaningful for the student. That is my opinion.
If the school is being run strictly as a business, without a feeling of family, then you should not be forced to teach, and certainly should not be forced to teach instead of train, and even more certainly should not be forced to pay for the privilege of teaching instead of training. If this is the happening then something is wrong.
But the actual circumstances can vary widely. What is reasonable, what you may find acceptable, will depend on a lot of variables.
I'll summarize some thoughts.
Part of the progression in training often includes helping with those who are junior to you. The amount of help you are expected to give can vary, depending on a lot of things. However, you should still be getting your own training as well.
If you have unwillingly swapped your training time for teaching time, and you are no longer training, then youve got a problem.
In my opinion, the better schools foster a feeling of family, but the respect needs to go both ways. There should be give-and-take, and it should go in both directions. It should be more than just a financial transaction. There should be a lot of room for this to be expressed in a way that is meaningful for the student. That is my opinion.
If the school is being run strictly as a business, without a feeling of family, then you should not be forced to teach, and certainly should not be forced to teach instead of train, and even more certainly should not be forced to pay for the privilege of teaching instead of training. If this is the happening then something is wrong.
But the actual circumstances can vary widely. What is reasonable, what you may find acceptable, will depend on a lot of variables.
Headhunter
Senior Master
Right firstly I do American kenpo so I don't do Asian martial arts and what so I don't like my martial art because I don't want to spend my time teaching....like I said it's this judgemental attitude that I hate. So im less of a martial artist because I don't want to teach.....doesn't matter how hard someone trains but if they don't teach they don't like there martial art...yeah that makes sense. That's the whole problem they EXPECT you to do it....why should they expect anything without asking. They expect you to do what they say at the click of their fingers...that's totally wrong and puts people off.
Oh and not going to last? I've been doing it for over 20 years so I've lasted.
Fact is I do teach I have been teaching every single class I go to for the past 6 months 3 or 4 times a week paid every class and not had a single bit of instruction myself
Headhunter
Senior Master
Yep like I've repeated hundreds of times now...I have taught non stop for 6 months every single class since. It's not like I'm bitching about taking 1 or 2 lessons here and there but every single class week in and week out and paying the instructor for it. I've been running both kids and adult classes since I get there early because it's more easy for my travel arrangements. So I'm teaching from 6-9, 3 days a week and paying Ā£7 a lesson to so. The fact I've done that for so long without complaint should show I'm committed but frankly I won't be a doormat
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Based on your description, I agree that you have a problem. This feels out of balance.
Headhunter
Senior Master
Absolutely it is...I've kept to it because I do like the club and I don't want to stop kenpo and really can't be bothered to go club searching again and I do like the people there they're great but frankly I want to train...I don't think my stuff is perfect and I want to improve and work on the finer details but I'm stuck teaching and despite what people say I see no improvement in myself from teaching. Some people here are happy to teach for the rest if their life and put there training second. I'm not I may be in the older generation but I still want to workout and learn new things I don't want to be spending my time standing in front of a class critiquing stances I want to be in the class sweating and pushing myself.
Kickboxer101
Master Black Belt
So if you don't teach you don't love your style....wow that's some real brainwashing and emotional blackmail going on there. If an instructor says that to someone the person will feel pressured to teach to prove they love it. Then the instructor gets free labour and his club run for him while stealing the guys money at the same time...agree with headhunter that absolutely sounds like a cult
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I think there is a lot of room for things to happen without it being a cult, and without the owner being a thief.
However, this does sound like a situation that is out of balance. Maybe it can be fixed. Maybe it can't.
However, this does sound like a situation that is out of balance. Maybe it can be fixed. Maybe it can't.
Tired_Yeti
Green Belt
Free your thinking, man.
This isn't a case of you being drafted into the Army. They can't MAKE you teach. Just simply set boundaries. Tell them how often and when you will teach (if at all) and stick to it. If you don't want to teach at all, tell them that, then refuse to teach a class. People treat you the way you signal them to treat you. If you don't set boundaries, people will take advantage. Worst case is that they ask you to leave the school. Then you take your MONEY to another dojo.
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jobo
Grandmaster
I think it sad that you don't feel part of a team or club , a sense of belonging, support and common purpose and identity are the plus points of brotherhood or extended family. I have very recently been enrolled in the,circle of students at my club, which means very little to me, but it is a big deal to them as I am officially recognised as a family member, so I was quite touched by the accolade
in your situation where you don't feel any sense of belonging then I think you are right to take your dollar elsewhere
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Headhunter
Senior Master
When did I say that I feel part of the club Im just not going to call them my family and I don't think it's sad at all I've got my real family and I've got my friends
lklawson
Grandmaster
whatever. Believe me or don't it doesn't matter.
lklawson
Grandmaster
you should give lessons on how to execute a straw man attack.
Headhunter
Senior Master
Good because I don't
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