Dontcha mean, "Nits grow to be lice," then? :angry:
Re No Peace in the Holy Land
- Thread starter Big Don
- Start date
Dontcha mean, "Nits grow to be lice," then? :angry:
Correct.... and a carpet bombing attack cannot distinguish between voters and nonvoters, rocket crews and mothers, Hamas voters and preschool children.
Now, consider why you would not have shot those children and you have the answer as to why the population of Gaza, all 1,400, 000 of them, should not be murdered.
Marginal
Senior Master
Isn't thinking like that what got Ward Churchill in trouble?
No, but TF is painting with an overly broad brush. Not every muslim is a terrorist, not every Palestinian wishes for the death of Isreal, not everyone in the Gaza Strip deserves to die. He knows this, we know this, now its just a matter of letting the ego settle down so that a bad idea can be recognized.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
AGAIN with the moral relativism Marginal
if you cant tell the difference between the USA and Palistine, you got bigger problems than I thought
Marginal
Senior Master
You are arguing that they deserve annihilation because of their government's policies. Churchill argued that the US government's actions drew 9/11 as a reprisal.
All inhabitants of a country are equally guilty for any action of that country seems the to be the only "argument" being offered in both cases.
when I read twin fist's comment that he hopes everyone in the Gaza Strip is wiped out it is just inhumane. Many people do not want to be involved with the actions that HAMAS is involved with. They want to raise their families and live a normal life. And Israel has not been an angel either. They have not let food or medical supplies though despite a UN order, previous to the bombing. Both sides are not complying. There are many pieces to this puzzle. Iran is involved supplying HAMAS. If Israel is going to succeed,they need to dismantle HAMAS, not wipe out a ethnic group. Then sanctions need to be put on Iran. Killing innocents is not the answer. It makes Israel look just as bad, not the victim. I feel bad for the Israelis, but, this is not the way they should have handled the situation.
People in Iran, North Korea, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela are badguys.
Americans are goodguys.
Let's just nuke all the badguys.
What has kept the US (the sole remaining superpower) from being a world-conquering global dictator is our (overall, for most of us) understanding that there is a fundamental difference between the people of a nation and the governments and dictators that sometimes rule over them.
Actually, the forced expulsion was carried out by the Yiftah Brigade of the IDF under command of then-Lt Col Yitzhak Rabin, who wrote about it and admitted as much in the original manuscript of his memoirs. (See, for example, "Making Israel", by Benny Morris, Professor of Middle East history at Ben-Gurion University, Beersheba, Israel. For an eye-opener, scroll down one page and click "Benny Morris" under 'Contents' on the left side to preview his article in this book specifically regarding this incident.)
This is all true.
No, I haven't wondered, because I know where all that money went. The tyrants-at-the-top in Fatah and the surrounding Arabic nations have a 'vested interest' in maintaining the miserableness of the Palestinian way of life. Ever wonder why there are still people living in squalid 'refugee camps' 60-some years after the first war? Why haven't these families been assimilated into Israel or any of the surrounding nations?
True again, and so tragically sad.
Actually it was the Irgun. I think you are talking about something else as when the majority of Arabs were 'displaced' it was in February 1948,Israel was declared independent in May 1948. In the Declaration of Independance all Arabs who were at that time in Israel were given equal rights and citzenship, they chose not to take it.
OP
OP
Big Don
Sr. Grandmaster
Just as they CHOOSE to continue to fire rockets into civilian areas, hide in schools, mosques and hospitals, and generally behave as cowards.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
and AGAIN if you cant tell WHY one statement is retardedly stupid and one not so much, you have been poisoned by that moral relativism crap
not to mention that the two assertions simply dont match up
there is ample evidence that palistinians SUPPORT hamas, they voted them into power
there is no evidence that that idiot churchill was correct in his characterization of americas actions. Much less when he compared the victims of 9-11 to Eichman.
got that?
people going to work, minding thier own business, and he compares them to a Nazi.
Hamas=terrorists
New Yorkers DO NOT equal nazis
unless you think they do?
even using that as an example is seriously flawed, as it simply doesnt relate or compare.
Moral relativism is a sign of a polluted mind, infected with a self administered case of crainial-rectal inversion
not to mention that the two assertions simply dont match up
there is ample evidence that palistinians SUPPORT hamas, they voted them into power
there is no evidence that that idiot churchill was correct in his characterization of americas actions. Much less when he compared the victims of 9-11 to Eichman.
got that?
people going to work, minding thier own business, and he compares them to a Nazi.
Hamas=terrorists
New Yorkers DO NOT equal nazis
unless you think they do?
even using that as an example is seriously flawed, as it simply doesnt relate or compare.
Moral relativism is a sign of a polluted mind, infected with a self administered case of crainial-rectal inversion
Marginal
Senior Master
I do tend to equate US citizens advocating indiscriminate killing of an entire ethnic group regardless of guilt in actual terrorist acts as a final solution to the terrorist problem as equivalent to Nazis as they are stridently busy advocating the exact same methodologies. Incidentally, NY is not separate from the US. (In fact, NY and Texas are both under the same flag.)
Stating genocide is wrong is not moral relativism. (It's more adhering to a universal truth.) Stating genocide is cool as long as one of our allies would be the one doing it is moral relativism. (As is suggesting that when the US acts, it never errs and that we're always the good guys.)
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Loki
Black Belt
It's really easy to assume that elections are held the same in every country, and that it's really as democratic as it is in America.
Hamas is a militant organization, and when a militant organization runs for government, their campaign is usually just that - militant. I won't suggest the extreme idea that Hamas forced all their votes and that's how they won, but I certainly doubt that it was fully democratic.
Elections in Israel also don't go as planned all the time. In fact, 29 out of 31 prime ministers that Israel had never completed their term. The ones I can remember were always toppled because of no confidence. So we find ourselves more than once disappointed by our own leaders. PM Olmert is currently under multiple investigation for all kinds of financial felonies. Does that make all Israelis thieves? We voted for the guy.
In the previous elections in Israel, a party ran with the sole purpose of representing the elderly. The idea in itself is absurd (think of Obama limiting himself with the interests of African American and campaigning as such), but these guys got 6 out of 120 seats in the parliament. Do you know who voted for them? It wasn't the elderly. People from all ends of the political spectrum who have just had enough of everyone else.
In the elections where Sharon was elected, a party called Shinui ("change") ran as a secular party, offering the legalization of civilian matrimony and public transportation on weekends (Israel is still bound by some religious laws). They didn't end up doing anything, and people were more hopeful than thoughtful when voting for them, but people have had enough of the religious parties forcing their dogma on our leaders and legislators.
Also keep in mind that conditions in Gaza were bad before. There weren't any real foundations for a normal society. In Germany in 1933, Adolf Hitler (Godwin's law, anyone?) rose to power for exactly the same reasons - conditions were bad and people wanted chage.
So sometimes, people vote for radical candidates simply because they've had enough of everyone else lying to them for so long.
Oh, and don't tell me you'd have gotten up and left Gaza if you were in their place. Where do you think you'd go? Hamas shot 70 Fatah members in the knees and broke some arms to make sure that Fatah doesn't aid Israel upon invasion. In their place, you'd either support Hamas or keep your opinion to yourself, because those were the only options you'd have.
Hamas is a militant organization, and when a militant organization runs for government, their campaign is usually just that - militant. I won't suggest the extreme idea that Hamas forced all their votes and that's how they won, but I certainly doubt that it was fully democratic.
Elections in Israel also don't go as planned all the time. In fact, 29 out of 31 prime ministers that Israel had never completed their term. The ones I can remember were always toppled because of no confidence. So we find ourselves more than once disappointed by our own leaders. PM Olmert is currently under multiple investigation for all kinds of financial felonies. Does that make all Israelis thieves? We voted for the guy.
In the previous elections in Israel, a party ran with the sole purpose of representing the elderly. The idea in itself is absurd (think of Obama limiting himself with the interests of African American and campaigning as such), but these guys got 6 out of 120 seats in the parliament. Do you know who voted for them? It wasn't the elderly. People from all ends of the political spectrum who have just had enough of everyone else.
In the elections where Sharon was elected, a party called Shinui ("change") ran as a secular party, offering the legalization of civilian matrimony and public transportation on weekends (Israel is still bound by some religious laws). They didn't end up doing anything, and people were more hopeful than thoughtful when voting for them, but people have had enough of the religious parties forcing their dogma on our leaders and legislators.
Also keep in mind that conditions in Gaza were bad before. There weren't any real foundations for a normal society. In Germany in 1933, Adolf Hitler (Godwin's law, anyone?) rose to power for exactly the same reasons - conditions were bad and people wanted chage.
So sometimes, people vote for radical candidates simply because they've had enough of everyone else lying to them for so long.
Oh, and don't tell me you'd have gotten up and left Gaza if you were in their place. Where do you think you'd go? Hamas shot 70 Fatah members in the knees and broke some arms to make sure that Fatah doesn't aid Israel upon invasion. In their place, you'd either support Hamas or keep your opinion to yourself, because those were the only options you'd have.
I wonder if those civilians Loki mentioned who were kneecapped or had their arms broken by Hamas are counted in the casualty figures of civilians we see in the hysterical media accounts every 11 seconds... some stories even mention, in a small line near the bottom, that several hundred terrorists have also been killed in the fighting.
Hamas killers have murdered a number of other people as well: merchants they decided were profiteering, those they decided were cooperating with Israel and a number even shot while in hospital. Do THOSE dead count in the figures?
How about the women and children killed by counter fire because Hamas mortar and rocket crews - those valiant warriors of Allah - were hiding behind them? Do they count anywheres?
How about those killed in mosques filled with Hamas weapons and civilian homes full of Hamas explosives? Those must be figured in somewheres....
You know, perhaps it is only my perception, but it seems the media is in a rush to tell us only about civilian deaths and to blame them on Israel. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems international efforts have taken on a "SAVE HAMAS!" character under the guise of saving the innocents... whom Hamas has murdered in so many ways.
In no way, shape or form would I support the murder of the Gaza population... but I think it in the best interest of both them and Israeli civilians that Hamas be crushed. Watch and see if misguided 'peacekeepers' don't manage to save Hamas.... who will murder again another day.
Hamas killers have murdered a number of other people as well: merchants they decided were profiteering, those they decided were cooperating with Israel and a number even shot while in hospital. Do THOSE dead count in the figures?
How about the women and children killed by counter fire because Hamas mortar and rocket crews - those valiant warriors of Allah - were hiding behind them? Do they count anywheres?
How about those killed in mosques filled with Hamas weapons and civilian homes full of Hamas explosives? Those must be figured in somewheres....
You know, perhaps it is only my perception, but it seems the media is in a rush to tell us only about civilian deaths and to blame them on Israel. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems international efforts have taken on a "SAVE HAMAS!" character under the guise of saving the innocents... whom Hamas has murdered in so many ways.
In no way, shape or form would I support the murder of the Gaza population... but I think it in the best interest of both them and Israeli civilians that Hamas be crushed. Watch and see if misguided 'peacekeepers' don't manage to save Hamas.... who will murder again another day.
I didn't deny HAMAS' violation of the order. In fact, I stated Iran is helping them and that HAMAS needs to be dismantled and sanctions need to be put on Iran. I agree, Iran is encouraging this garbage. However, children who have nothing to do with this do not deserve to starve to death. It disgusts me when I hear people say "go ahead, kill them let them starve." Have you been to war? Have you seen people starve to death? The problem is many Americans have never seen the effects war has on a society. I hope war never touches this soil. 9/11 was bad enough, but, 9/11 was a one day event, an attack. I'm talking a war that lasts for years. If that ever kit American soil, so many Americans would change their views on war in a snap. It's easy to declare a war, but, it's not easy to fight one.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
thats where you are mistaken about the american spirit
were enemies on our soil, all the petty liberal conservative crap would go out the window
we would fight, to the death, the enemies to our way of life
the american spirit is still there, and it can return, with the proper motivation
we dont quit, we dont give up, we KILL our enemies
sure everything you said is correct, war bad, war sucks, etc
but a prolonged attack on OUR soil? that wouldnt break our fighting spirit, it would IGNITE it
were enemies on our soil, all the petty liberal conservative crap would go out the window
we would fight, to the death, the enemies to our way of life
the american spirit is still there, and it can return, with the proper motivation
we dont quit, we dont give up, we KILL our enemies
sure everything you said is correct, war bad, war sucks, etc
but a prolonged attack on OUR soil? that wouldnt break our fighting spirit, it would IGNITE it
