Israel and Hamas: War looms

[elder999]

However in all these years despite all the aggression, attacks, the Israeli deaths and perhaps the temptation to use them Israel never has.

Well, that's a far cry from "Israel has no nuclear weapons, " isn't it? And therein lies the rub-to use them would be to declare them.

And, in fairness to Israel, not declaring them was probably a far more effective deterrent than using them.

 

[Tez3]

Well, that's a far cry from "Israel has no nuclear weapons, " isn't it? And therein lies the rub-to use them would be to declare them.

And, in fairness to Israel, not declaring them was probably a far more effective deterrent than using them.

Perhaps I should have put a little note beside my comment about Israel not having nuclear weapons so it would be known the comment was tongue in cheek, still I did think you'd know ...

 

[elder999]

Perhaps I should have put a little note beside my comment about Israel not having nuclear weapons so it would be known the comment was tongue in cheek, still I did think you'd know ...

Pet peeve. Not a joking matter to someone with a career like mine.

Transistioned out a few years ago, and still have the occasional nightmare.....:uhoh:

 

[Tez3]

Pet peeve. Not a joking matter to someone with a career like mine.

Transistioned out a few years ago, and still have the occasional nightmare.....:uhoh:

Did I say it was a joke, far from it, tongue in cheek, doesn't mean it's a laughing matter especially when it's my people someone is talking about wiping out. It's ironic in the sense of irony not sarcasm. I know Americans think irony and sarcasm are the same they aren't however, quite different things.

 

[elder999]

Did I say it was a joke, far from it, tongue in cheek, doesn't mean it's a laughing matter especially when it's my people someone is talking about wiping out. It's ironic in the sense of irony not sarcasm. I know Americans think irony and sarcasm are the same they aren't however, quite different things.

Oooh. Irony.

Would that be anything like the standard Israeli hello being "shalom," and the standard Palestinian one being "salaam"?

Or would it be that both of them mean "peace?" :barf:

 

[granfire]

Oooh. Irony.

Would that be anything like the standard Israeli hello being "shalom," and the standard Palestinian one being "salaam"?

Or would it be that both of them mean "peace?" :barf:

NO, that is sarcasm - the way you write it, anyhow! :angel:

 

[elder999]

NO, that is sarcasm - the way you write it, anyhow! :angel:

Nah, babe. That's disgust. Disgust that for every Palestinian who says that Israel should be wiped from the face of the earth, there's an Israeli who says that the Palestinians should go back to Syria and Jordan, with the rest of the Ah-rabbs. Caught in between, of course, area majority who just want to get along. Israelis sickened by civilian deaths, and Palestinians,, trapped by Hamas. And, of course, all of us trapped in the boxes of our "informed opinions." Frankly, I'm just tired of it. Bring on the glass parking lot. It's what we all deserve. :barf:

 

[Scott T]

Tried, writing a response but too tired at the moment. Later.

 

[Tez3]

You reap what you sow, as I said if America, France and the UK hadn't meddled to start with this wouldn't be happening now. History comes and bites you on the ****. If the reparations hadn't been so severe after the First World War the chances of there being the Second World War would have been almost none. If America, France and the UK hadn't meddled in the Middle East the chances there would have been all this war etc would have been almost none. It wasn't our generation of course but we are paying the price.

 

[elder999]

You reap what you sow, as I said if America, France and the UK hadn't meddled to start with this wouldn't be happening now. History comes and bites you on the ****. If the reparations hadn't been so severe after the First
World War the chances of there being the Second World War would have been almost none. If America, France and the UK hadn't meddled in the Middle East the chances there would have been all this war etc would have been almost none. It wasn't our generation of course but we are paying the price.

If the US,France, and the UK hadn't meddled in the Middle East, the chances that there would be a state of Israel are almost none....

 

[Tez3]

If the US,France, and the UK hadn't meddled in the Middle East, the chances that there would be a state of Israel are almost none....

Perhaps, but it was always on the cards however without the Holocaust there wouldn't have been such a great need for Israel.

 

[granfire]

Nah, babe. That's disgust. Disgust that for every Palestinian who says that Israel should be wiped from the face of the earth, there's an Israeli who says that the Palestinians should go back to Syria and Jordan, with the rest of the Ah-rabbs. Caught in between, of course, area majority who just want to get along. Israelis sickened by civilian deaths, and Palestinians,, trapped by Hamas. And, of course, all of us trapped in the boxes of our "informed opinions." Frankly, I'm just tired of it. Bring on the glass parking lot. It's what we all deserve. :barf:

considering that we are moving into the Holiday Season with a steep increase in calls to 911 for domestic situation...does that at all surprise you?
We can't make it through Thanksgiving Dinner....much less a few millenia.

But yeah, people who just want to be at peace, on both sides, being overshadowed by those with an agenda - who are usually far, FAR away from the battle front.....

However, I was just making a smartass remark regarding irony and sarcasm....

 

[arnisador]

If the US,France, and the UK hadn't meddled in the Middle East, the chances that there would be a state of Israel are almost none....

Yup.

 

[Tez3]

Yup.

False argument, if America and the UK hadn't interfered there would have been no rise to power of Hitler and the Nazis, no Holocaust, no Nazi Mufti of Jeruslaem, well, you get the picture. The Arab countries would follow their natural borders with leaders that the locals wanted instead of having foisted on them. There may well have not been an Israel but the dire need for it wouldn't be there. The hatred of the Muslims for America is far greater than the hatred of Israel I'm afraid, memories are long in the Middle East, they go back a long way and to be honest I don't blame them in many respects.
I could live without Israel being real and being just an aspiration if it meant there had been no Holocaust and there was peace in the Middle East.


Going back to something I posted earlier.

And this....

 

[arnisador]

False argument, if America and the UK hadn't interfered there would have been no rise to power of Hitler and the Nazis, no Holocaust

Is the "interference" you're referring to WWI?

 

[granfire]

Is the "interference" you're referring to WWI?

previous to that actually, when the countries were formed, without regard to the ethnic boundaries.

 

[arnisador]

Yeah, colonialism sucked. I'm not sure I follow the point. Will we trace blame back to Jehovah for promising them the land in the first place, 3000 years ago?

 

[granfire]

Yeah, colonialism sucked. I'm not sure I follow the point. Will we trace blame back to Jehovah for promising them the land in the first place, 3000 years ago?

You missed the point Tez was repeating a few times: While the British kinda sorta promised the Jews a country, without the massive fluster cluck starting with the treaties of Versailles and finding their climax in Adolf the Unneccassary, there would have not been a need for a Jewish country: Ever since the exodus...no wait...that was the wrong one, anyhow ever since the Romans dismantled Palestine, Jewish people had been living in all countries of the middle east in pretty much peace.

But then again, the British led the Arabs on, making them believe that if they beat the Turks they'd get their own country...

 

[arnisador]

the treaties of Versailles

Yup--really bad idea. Ensured WWII...

and finding their climax in Adolf the Unneccassary

...but that specific form of WWII, including the Holocaust, was less clearly predictable. Still...

there would have not been a need for a Jewish country

...plenty of Jews left Europe before WWI, even (including my wife's grandparents) because it was already problematic there. Anti-Semitism has long roots and the Jews would have wanted, and benefited from, their own country even without WWII.

 

[Tez3]

Yup--really bad idea. Ensured WWII...



...but that specific form of WWII, including the Holocaust, was less clearly predictable. Still...



...plenty of Jews left Europe before WWI, even (including my wife's grandparents) because it was already problematic there. Anti-Semitism has long roots and the Jews would have wanted, and benefited from, their own country even without WWII.

Of course we would have wanted our own country, Zionism is an old movement,a pre World War one but the last war made it imperative rather than just hopeful. Even without Israel though the Middle East was messed up because of the boundaries and the imposition of rulers. Less colonialism though more to do with oil supplies even then. America supported Greece after the First World War and enabled them to invade Turkey which again caused problems when the Turkish Empire was broken up, Palestine had previously been held by the Turks along with other Middle Eastern lands. Britian, America and France didn't so much want the colonies but to ensure oil supplies and the wealth it brought. Even if Palestine had been controlled by Arabs and there was no Israel the chances of ther being war and the terrorism against America would still be high because of the past. The Iranians who incidentally support Hamas in Gaza with arms and money as well as military training hates the US for putting the Shah on the throne. he was a monster though.