RBSD And TMAs: Does One Prepare You Better Than The Other?

[Flying Crane]

There are too many elements that come into the mix to make such an easy distinction.

Yes true a .45![/quote]


that could certainly be one element.

 

[Xue Sheng]

hmmm... Reality Based Martial Art... as opposed to what? FANTASY Based Martial Art? Is there such a thing?

I train Taiji, I train Xingyi and I train Sanda, all seem pretty based in reality to me and none are based in fantasy... but then maybe that is just me.


But with that said I can see where you are more effective with Sanda in a shorter period of time but then that is what it was designed for. But take the time and train Xingyiquan and you are again very effective. Take more time and train Taiji and you are again very effective.

It is a function of what is required of the training; both Xingyi and Taiji are internal and take more time. But on the other side of this which will stay effective longer, meaning as we age. I am guessing it is a reverse order then, but then it also depends on many things one of those simply being genetics.

But back to the point of the post as to which trains better, well that depends on the person being trained as well. Some will not like Sanda training and many do not like Xingyiquan training but they might like Taiji of bagua. Which means that they will not train an RBSD so it is not effective at all for them but they might like a TCMA like bagua and it will be incredibly effective for them.

To make a blanket statement that one way is better than the other is only looking at it form one side or from a basis of a personal opinion or even a like group that trains said styles opinion and to be honest it is just another variation of the old "lets beat a dead horse" MMA vs. TMA post.

 

[D.G.C.F.S.]

hmmm... Reality Based Martial Art... as opposed to what? FANTASY Based Martial Art? Is there such a thing?

There is no distinction, unless an art is specifically meant for performance or non-contact competition. Performance Modern Wushu and XMA performance style arts I would categorize as perhaps a Fantasy Based Martial Art, but that's kind of the end of it. Altho these people can be elite level athletes.

Even a sporting art can be useful for self defense, such as boxing or wrestling. There is a certain amount of common ground between combative sporting competition and real fighting, and skills can carry over from one field to the other.

Anything else, if it is designed for fighting application, is based on a perception of reality and what works. The difference is just in intensity and realism of how it is practiced and trained, and that is something that can vary widely from school to school and person to person, even within the same system. Any art can be practiced for reality. Likewise, any art can be practiced poorly, and not prepare one for reality.

Those who want to make a distinction between Reality Based Arts and Traditional Arts are just pushing their own fantasy. There are too many elements that come into the mix to make such an easy distinction.

here is my 0.02 cents

The 3 Categories of Martial Arts

"When the mind is tethered to a center, naturally it is not FREE; it can move only within the LIMITS of that center." -Bruce Lee.
TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTS vs. M.M.A.SPORT vs. REALITY-BASED MARTIAL ARTS
Martial arts can be divided into 3 categories: Traditional Martial Arts, Mixed Martial Arts, Reality-Based Martial Arts. The problem is that, thanks to movies, TV, Internet, You Tube, Instructors, ect., there is no actual proof of any one method of fighting being completely dominant in all situations. Martial Artists have blurred it to the point of non-existence. While all have many overlapping elements, it is important for you to understand that each category is distinctively different and must be treated as such.
TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTS Traditional martial arts contain every style from traditional Karate, Hapkido, Kenpo, Escrima, Aikido, and kung fu, to the countless other cultural traditional martial arts that have been developed throughout history. Some traditional martial arts systems originate from military combat experience and self defense needs for people. These systems have been tested and proven under realistic conditions back in the 500 CE era, when they FOUGHT with HONOR, but has not been PROVEN in MODEREN DAY. Things have changed in this world we live in but, none the less, all of these arets are fun to do, help get you into shape, instill discipline, and are great for kids. They can all be very interesting and provide an education in world culture and martial arts theory. However, no cultural fighting art has any proof of dominant effectiveness in the modern world. That means that Aikido, Karate,Tae-Kwon-Do, Kung Fu, and countless other cultural traditional martial arts, even including Israel's "Krav Maga", are not proven effective in combat or street application. Nor does it even classify as proven effective in combative sport such as U.F.C. and cage fighting. So, without an abundance of proof, it is only martial theory, not fact. Even with their pretty forms, they have no place in self protection. Don’t get me wrong, all of these styles can POSSIBLY help you out of a tough jam because a scientific way of combat is better than NO way of combat. However, traditional martial arts instructors give there student a false sense of security. Traditional martial arts DO NOT TEACH the necessary reality-Based Scenarios or resistance training in order to prepare you for the stress of a real life situation.
MIXED MARTIAL ARTS & COMBATIVE SPORT M.M.A. & Combative Sports include Olympic judo, Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, Muay Thai kickboxing, all forms of wrestling, western boxing, and M.M.A., which has been popularized by events such as the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC). In combative sport, you are forced to prove the effectiveness of your methods and skill in live combat. There is no guesswork nor debate. It either works and you win, or it doesn't work and you lose. Everybody in the world saw Combat Sport Brazilian Jiu-jujitsu stylist Royce Gracie easily pick apart the cultural fighting art practitioners in the first few Ultimate Fighting Championships. If you watch Olympic Judo, you'll see the highest caliber athletes in the world competing in a sport that is symbolic of combat in that the entire basis is to establish a dominant position. Combative Sport is a very, very important component of testing the validity and effectiveness of a martial art. HOWEVER, it too is not reality-based martial arts or combat driven. It is only a training and conditioning method for self-defense. Combative sport is what you use to train yourself to make sure that your self-defense works under sport conditions. A great example is, simply, that that the rules, regulations, and referees that are required in combative sport are NOT going to be there when someone is trying mug you, rape you, trying to hurt a family member, or trying to kill you in a dark alley. Therefore, NO, even today's most popular training methods: Brazilian jiu-jitsu, Muay Thai, Wrestling, Judo, Boxing, Mixed Martial Arts, etc. are not methods of reality-based martial arts either.

REALITY-BASED MARTIAL ARTS The definition of the term "Reality-Based" is, training and survival skills based on modern conflict situations that the practitioner is likely to encounter in their environment (their "reality").
Sounds simple right? The real issue is that there are a million-and-one different ways you can be attacked. Everything from a drunk tackling you at the local bar to an armed mugging on your way home from work, a carjacking, or being caught in the middle of a military or terrorist operation. Therefore, Reality-Based Martial Arts have one purpose, and one purpose only; To survive. What we mean is that no sane person, soldiers, professional fighters, or trained martial artists truly want to hurt or kill a human being. But when it comes to bodily injury or a "kill or be killed" situation, your natural survival instinct WILL take over and do whatever it can to save your life so you can go home to your family. Learning to properly defend yourself is much more than just avoiding injury, humiliation, or even death. Our greatest enemy of all is : Fear & Incorrect Training. There IS no 100% answer to anything, but when it comes to matters of bodily injury, life and death, or protecting loved ones, the smart thing to do is stack the odds in your favor.

 

[D.G.C.F.S.]

The point i am maknig is that it seems that all RBSD systems today do nothing but knock TMA , and call them useless and archaic. Its all basically branding for them, thats what they want you to think. Thus buy their product etc...... Nowadays there is a big push for RSBD and there are so many of them that are coming out now. In another few years there is going to be so many Mc RSBD's that your head is gonna spin. RSBD wouldn't exist without TMA. That is all I am saying. and Like somoene mentioned before it is not what you train it is how you train. One isn't better than the other. It is just IMO that RSBD lack teh system and structure of TMA and those are needed in training. It is part of the journey. RSBD systems make it sound almost like the Matrix. You plug in and within hours you are capable of defending yourself which is a crock.


You needs years of training to make it a instinctive response and that isn't going to happen in any style in 6 months. RBSD , TMA or not. Why do you think TMA's have been aroudn for so long. RBSD are just a flash in the pan. Sorry if I seem vehement but I obviously am a TMA supporter. Those guys in RBSD are not re-inventing the wheel as much as they think they are.

Hello I am a R.B.M.A. Instructor you have to understand what actually happens to your body during a true combative or life-or-death situation. Depending on your physical fitness level, your heart typically beats at 60-80 beats per minute. This is known as a resting heart rate and everything in your sympathetic nervous system is performing normally. However, when frightened, your heart rate jumps to 115 beats per minute, sometimes more, and your fine motor skills deteriorate. The ability to put a key in a car door or even tie your shoes becomes increasingly difficult. Why? You panic. Interestingly enough, this 115 to 145 beats per minute is the optimal survival and combat performance level for complex motor skills, visual reaction time, and cognitive thinking. Complex motor skills that are multi-muscle involved movements as found in all martial arts. Reverse punch, front kick, wrist lock, arm bar, hip throw, etc. This is the highest heart rate of most professional athletes and fighters. They are able to stay at this rate because they know that no one is trying to kill them. If you are able to train your body to respond appropriately to fear-induced stress under competitive conditions, you will be better able to survive during battle. At 145 beats per minute, your complex motor skills immediately begin to deteriorate and at 175, you can't think straight, you lose peripheral vision, your hearing excludes everything not in that tunnel vision, and vasocon striction sets in as a natural way to reduce bleeding from any wounds you're about to suffer. Finally, above 175 is where irrational fight or flight sets in, as well as natural submissive behavior, also known as combat freezing.
I have to ask, do you train with a plastic gun to disarm? We do not we train with airsoft Guns that shoot 350 to 450 fps, Why If you make a mistake YOU KNOW!!
Do you train with a RUBBER KNIFE or a WOOD ONE?
We do not, we train with a SHOCK knife that SHOCKS you WHEN it touches the body.
Do you train in an elevator size room?
We do for close quarter combat.
I have been ask to train MILITARY all around the world my sifu also has train Navy Seals S.F.Teams.
I guess the U.S.Military SEES something you do not.......
But then who am I to say what I am saying...
I only train master, T.M.A. Instructors S.F. Teams ect...
I do not hate or dislike T.M.A. that is my back ground for the most part..
BUT I do know that there is a BIG difference between T.M.A. M.M.A. R.B.M.A.
I *bow*
with respect

 

[The Last Legionary]

People seem to confuse "effective" arts with "preservationist" arts and "sport" arts. They then go off and "reinvent" things, trying to "improve" them and "modernize" them.
I've found that usually means they never actually understood things.
"Wheel Reinvention" is a common problem in the martial arts.
Most of those doing it aren't worth wasting time with when you have perfectly good, time honed systems already in existence. All that is lacking are instructors who really understand their art, and students who have the mind to see things properly.

Of course, I like wooden trainers, rattan mats, and the occasional folding chair. Save the "high tech" crap, super foam floors and AC for the hobbyists.

Ok, back to reading all the infomercials and mindless blather that seem to be flooding the site lately. Buy some ad space and stop being leaches already, geeze.

 

[D.G.C.F.S.]

Spoken like a true mindless blather that seem to be flooding the site lately.
Go back to the dojo and train

 

[The Last Legionary]

Look Leech, How much have you and your spamvertizing buddy there really contributed here again? I've at least sent in a fiver now and again. Seems you guys are Johnny-Come-Lately's getting alot of milage pushing this "new" system that's months away from actually being able to "put up". I read alot of opinion, rehash and "videos coming someday". IMO, you're just another wannabe-retread art missing the boat on a few hundred years of real experience. Drop a dime, or put up some actual content rather than more spamvertising.

Ya gotta love firgins.

 

[D.G.C.F.S.]

I looked at your profile...Oh wait you do not have ONE!!! I wonder why? OH you are a wanna be... I have a school... I instructor... YOU? I have been in Martial arts since the age of 5 years old, YOU? Oh wait NO INFO on YOU.. Why? OH none to give.....
I was W.K.F. Champion you? where are you credentials? LEECH!!! HACK PAPER DRAGON!!! YOU are the one with DISRESPECT, just cause you know how to type a few word GET A LIFE and train in a real DOJO.... IF you have the GUTS... BOY

 

[D.G.C.F.S.]

OH by the way....
here is my website do you have one? or are you training in your garage?
The Last Legionary yea RIGHT!!!!

http://www.darkgiftcombat.com

 

[The Last Legionary]

OH by the way....
here is my website do you have one? or are you training in your garage?
The Last Legionary yea RIGHT!!!!

http://www.darkgiftcombat.com

First kid, "Dojo" is a Japanese term. I don't train in a "Do Jo" since I don't train in a Japanese style, system or art. I train in a "Training Hall". See, this is that "steal the foreign term" crap too many hacks do to screw the sheeple out of their cash.

Secondly, so you were a champion in what again? WKF, is that like the WWF but not as well known?

My credentials? They were posted along time ago. Go fish.

So you trained the US military huh? Big deal. Who hasn't? Really. Every one of these new hack systems is run by someone who trained the military. Post up some contract numbers that I can verify with the brass, and if they check out, I might actually have some respect for you.

You have a school? Again, big ****ing deal. Half the people here do too. You want to impress me? Show proof that it's your full time job, that it comfortably supports you and your family, and that your net-income is significantly over poverty. Anyone can run a school part time in a run down strip plaza, while holding a day job and living in a singlewide shantytown. Show me da monay! :rofl:

You might also want to read the site rules again. I mean, you did read them right?

 

[Dark Gift Concepts]

RBSD is better suited for real practical application.

 

[The Last Legionary]

RBSD is better suited for real practical application.

In what way? Yes, I could read and search, but make it easy.
By that I mean, simple and short please.
What do you eliminate that is in traditional, or add that is missing.
For example, an old art might train with a long sword. Outdated.
But a machette is cheap at Wallimart.
A technique that worked in 1970 on a revolver, won't work on a modern automatic. What do you change to "bring it up to date"?
A technique designed for full armor is out of date, but do you drop it or modify it to work with modern body armors?
Follow?
This is where I find most "new" systems fail. They drop what is "old" because it is "old" and because they fail to see the connections.

 

[Cirdan]

TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTS Traditional martial arts contain every style from traditional Karate, Hapkido, Kenpo, Escrima, Aikido, and kung fu, to the countless other cultural traditional martial arts that have been developed throughout history. Some traditional martial arts systems originate from military combat experience and self defense needs for people. These systems have been tested and proven under realistic conditions back in the 500 CE era, when they FOUGHT with HONOR, but has not been PROVEN in MODEREN DAY. Things have changed in this world we live in but, none the less, all of these arets are fun to do, help get you into shape, instill discipline, and are great for kids. They can all be very interesting and provide an education in world culture and martial arts theory. However, no cultural fighting art has any proof of dominant effectiveness in the modern world. That means that Aikido, Karate,Tae-Kwon-Do, Kung Fu, and countless other cultural traditional martial arts, even including Israel's "Krav Maga", are not proven effective in combat or street application. Nor does it even classify as proven effective in combative sport such as U.F.C. and cage fighting. So, without an abundance of proof, it is only martial theory, not fact. Even with their pretty forms, they have no place in self protection. Don’t get me wrong, all of these styles can POSSIBLY help you out of a tough jam because a scientific way of combat is better than NO way of combat. However, traditional martial arts instructors give there student a false sense of security. Traditional martial arts DO NOT TEACH the necessary reality-Based Scenarios or resistance training in order to prepare you for the stress of a real life situation.

Dark One, I think you POSSIBLY have a lot to learn about the history of Traditional Arts as well as how they are taught today.
I would try to enlighten you but alas I have to go practice my pretty form.

 

[Dark Gift Concepts]

Dark One, I think you POSSIBLY have a lot to learn about the history of Traditional Arts as well as how they are taught today.
I would try to enlighten you but alas I have to go practice my pretty form.

Hey I know this response was towards him, but just to let you know, He came from TMA! Until I countered him when I began training him and opened his eyes to the same thing I learned prior.. So ya he don't know ****.... Lol if you only knew..

 

[Cirdan]

Hey I know this response was towards him, but just to let you know, He came from TMA! Until I countered him when I began training him and opened his eyes to the same thing I learned prior.. So ya he don't know shhiii.... Lol if you only knew..

Did you teach him the art of typing too?

 

[Ravioli-Z]

First kid, "Dojo" is a Japanese term. I don't train in a "Do Jo" since I don't train in a Japanese style, system or art. I train in a "Training Hall". See, this is that "steal the foreign term" crap too many hacks do to screw the sheeple out of their cash.

Secondly, so you were a champion in what again? WKF, is that like the WWF but not as well known?

My credentials? They were posted along time ago. Go fish.

So you trained the US military huh? Big deal. Who hasn't? Really. Every one of these new hack systems is run by someone who trained the military. Post up some contract numbers that I can verify with the brass, and if they check out, I might actually have some respect for you.

You have a school? Again, big ****ing deal. Half the people here do too. You want to impress me? Show proof that it's your full time job, that it comfortably supports you and your family, and that your net-income is significantly over poverty. Anyone can run a school part time in a run down strip plaza, while holding a day job and living in a singlewide shantytown. Show me da monay! :rofl:

You might also want to read the site rules again. I mean, you did read them right?

Wow, thank you, sir, for all your oh so great wisdom and putting all us common folk in our place. Considering he didn't know your credentials, and "dojo" is a commonly accepted term throughout most arts, his use of the term would have been acceptable to the less pompous. WKF could stand for both "World Kickboxing Federation" and "World Karate Federation" both of which are known and respected world-wide and have been around since the 1970's. You seem to be so knowledgable in the arts. I figured you would have heard of them. It must have just slipped your mind. Oh, and since you seem to be an individual worthy of such demanding respect I should probably let you know that his military credentials are respectable, documented, verifiable, and attainable. "Go Fish." Do you slam all former service members now teaching martial arts or just the ones that teach "reality based systems"? You also wanted proof that he teaches full time and makes a good living at it. Again, that is also documented and verifiable (affirmative on both). If you want it so bad... "go fish." Why are you so insistant on seeing all this proof anyway? It's just a forum. Oh, and speaking of the forum... you should go re-read the rules as well... although based on your post... I'm sure your hypocracy knows no bounds. I'm sure you will no doubt want the last word here oh wise one but I'll go ahead and let you know that I will neither dignify anymore posts from you with a response nor will I return back to this thread. Good day to you all. May you live and train well.

 

[Dark Gift Concepts]

Did you teach him the art of typing too?

You totally understood it, Oh and your so witty..wow did you think of that one all by your lonesome?

 

[thetruth]

I think that the quality of instructor has more to do with preparation than the type of art it is whether it be tma or rbsd. I think the fact that the newbies in here get so offended and defensive shows that they have a lot to learn as far as humility goes (something tma teaches).

Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[Dark Gift Concepts]

I think that the quality of instructor has more to do with preparation than the type of art it is whether it be tma or rbsd. I think the fact that the newbies in here get so offended and defensive shows that they have a lot to learn as far as humility goes (something tma teaches).

Cheers
Sam:asian:

If you paid attention it was the long standing members demanding info to the quickest as if you were some master **** and attacked. Now you turn it around..please please please!

 

[thetruth]

Spoken like a true mindless blather that seem to be flooding the site lately.
Go back to the dojo and train

No offense mate but given you have been a member here for less than 2 weeks, perhaps you may be a contributor to the mindless blather to which you refer.

It seems strange that all of a sudden there are 3 or 4 people on this forum that seem to all be related to you in some way. Something fishy is going on here.

Cheers
Sam:asian: