RBSD And TMAs: Does One Prepare You Better Than The Other?

[Dark Gift Concepts]

I think they both have there applications and time. Also the situation you are put in. But I have seen this though, training in anything has to lead or develope a sense of attributes and self awareness as well as situational awareness and what is possible and or usefull to pull off.
Example: I had a friend of mine in H.S. who his father was the owner head instructor to the local TWD schools. One evening at a school party the whole football team walked up on him cause he had danced with one of the "popular" girls. That ofcourse made all the no minded jocks get there panties up in a bunch.
When confronted he tried to make it a one on one fight, not going to happen!
Now here is were his heart was right, but the training was wrong!

He jumped up in the air and kicked the 1st fool so hard he went flying back, now when he landed back on his feet he postered to set up and got demolished by all the jocks.

So right mentality, wrong insert of art and wrong mentality when dealing with mass attack.

So there is no better this or that! There is just who's better prepared for all situations and who has more tricks from the bolsa de gato!

 

[tshadowchaser]

Do you feel that the Reality Based arts teach in a more effective manner than a TMA?

A more effective manner to what end?
If I need to learn to fight to kill in a set period of time I want some reality based training ( this includes the military). If I want to learn an art then the TMA is where I am going to go because I have the time to learn much more then dismantling a person.
Each has it’s own area within the martial arts. Some people want to learn more than how to do something , they want to know the history behind what they are learning and are interested in learning many different aspects of that art. Some want to concentrate on only the street value of and those need a more reality based system today.
Both can show you how to survive and how to inflect pain or worse upon your opponent one just focuses more upon street ( survival) and perhaps more modern weopons and less on other things. So it is all a matter of what you are looking for at the moment

 

[Xue Sheng]

I have been thinking about this and I started to wonder based on a qinna class I was one in where a female student got extremely upset when she asked the question “what do I do after I get him in a lock” and the answer came back for the Sifu “kill him”. She actually argued with the sifu about that to which he said these were made for war and you are not going to leave an enemy behind you to come back and kill you. That sound pretty RBSD to me and Qinna is rather old.

Whether or not Reality Based arts teach in a more effective manner than a TMA is really not all that important. It may or may not but the student would have to be able to take it to where it is meant to go if necessary and if they are not all the training in the world is useless same goes for TMA by the way. Which comes back to it is not what you train but how you train.

Kind of like if I go out and train to become the most deadly master the sword fighting world has ever seen and there is no one that can beat me in a dual in any school or competition anywhere on the planet. But I find myself one day actually up against someone that is going to kill me if I do not kill or at least maim them. I got to tell you I am not 100% sure I could stab or intentionally cut anyone so I may have the skill to be deadly but I do not have the mindset to be deadly.


This also leads me to define reality for a martial art and its training?

 

[morph4me]

As has been stated before, it all depends on how you train. I like the way that RBSD helps give you the feel of a real situation, the adreneline rush, the kowledge of what it's like to actually hit someone, etc., but just as in TMA you know that nobody is actually trying to hurt you, you're training in a relatively safe environment. I like the discipline, balance, focus and technique of TMA, but if you never hit anyone, and never have to worry about being hit, if the techniques are too complicated to use when the adreneline rush hits and you're fine motor skills aren't accessible to you, all your skills will be useless in a real situation. I think that, ideally, you have to train the tools that both have to offer.

 

[Xue Sheng]

but just as in TMA you know that nobody is actually trying to hurt you, you're training in a relatively safe environment.

Apparently you have never been to a xingyiquan or qinna class :EG: :uhyeah:

 

[FearlessFreep]

I have been thinking about this and I started to wonder based on a qinna class I was one in where a female student got extremely upset when she asked the question “what do I do after I get him in a lock” and the answer came back for the Sifu “kill him”. She actually argued with the sifu about that to which he said these were made for war and you are not going to leave an enemy behind you to come back and kill you. That sound pretty RBSD to me and Qinna is rather old.

My ex-Hapkido instructor was also a cop and Air Force para-rescue (in other words, he had been in situations where it mattered). He used to say that in a fight that his adversary would go "either to the hospital or the morgue, and I get to choose which one"

 

[Xue Sheng]

My ex-Hapkido instructor was also a cop and Air Force para-rescue (in other words, he had been in situations where it mattered). He used to say that in a fight that his adversary would go "either to the hospital or the morgue, and I get to choose which one"

And more MA (TMA or RBSD) instructors should make that clear to thier students they need to be told how serious a fight can be.

 

[D.G.C.F.S.]

I have been thinking about this and I started to wonder based on a qinna class I was one in where a female student got extremely upset when she asked the question “what do I do after I get him in a lock” and the answer came back for the Sifu “kill him”. She actually argued with the sifu about that to which he said these were made for war and you are not going to leave an enemy behind you to come back and kill you. That sound pretty RBSD to me and Qinna is rather old.

Whether or not Reality Based arts teach in a more effective manner than a TMA is really not all that important. It may or may not but the student would have to be able to take it to where it is meant to go if necessary and if they are not all the training in the world is useless same goes for TMA by the way. Which comes back to it is not what you train but how you train.

Kind of like if I go out and train to become the most deadly master the sword fighting world has ever seen and there is no one that can beat me in a dual in any school or competition anywhere on the planet. But I find myself one day actually up against someone that is going to kill me if I do not kill or at least maim them. I got to tell you I am not 100% sure I could stab or intentionally cut anyone so I may have the skill to be deadly but I do not have the mindset to be deadly.


This also leads me to define reality for a martial art and its training?

The definition of the term "Reality-Based" is, training and survival skills based on modern conflict situations that the practitioner is likely to encounter in their environment (their "reality").

"In the long history of HUMANITY, the instinct to follow and imitate seems to be inherent in most PEOPLE, TEACHERS, and students alike." -Bruce Lee


"Are you bad mouthing traditional martial art and M.M.A.? My traditional martial art is self-defense and reality-based too!"

Here is where I stand on Traditional Martial Arts and M.M.A.
All are advantageous to learn and train in, they have several health and spiritual benefits, they help get you into shape, they improve discipline, and they are great for kids. I, personally, love traditional martial arts and M.M.A. In fact, hat is my back ground and it will always be. HOWEVER, there are Instructors out there that claim their style is a complete system. Beware of false claims. Make sure that their training will give you TRUE REALITY-BASED trainig that can save your life and protect your loved ones! Otherwise, RUN... They will get you hurt or killed! This not just my belief. Many others such as The Self Defense Company, Close Combat Comany, P.F.S., Jimmy Wagner, etc. all state the same thing.
What we teach will enhance any art you already study. I do not intend to replace what you have learned. That is not the reason or purpose Of D.G.C.F.S. It is to give you additional tools for a street altercation and let you look outside of your style or system to enhance your fighting ability.
So dont get mad at us.
Ask yourself...

• Can you protect your family with traditional martial arts / M.M.A.? POSSIBLY
• Can you protect yourself if a weapon is used, "knife, stick, gun? POSSIBLY
• Can you protect yourself if you are stabbed or shot? POSSIBLY
• Can you protect yourself if your strong arm or leg is hurt? POSSIBLY
• Can you protect yourself if there are multiple attackers? POSSIBLY

Is "Possibly" a good enough answer?
This is taken from my website

http://www.darkgiftcombat.com

It will get MOST of you MAD AT ME but Thats my beleave and my journey of discovery, It does not make it right or wrong just the way I see IT.
I *BOW* with humblness and respect.

 

[Xue Sheng]

D.C.G.F.S.

Could have done without the bold large letters (which gets interpreted as yelling in the wonderful world of the web) that really did not apply to my question and I could have done without the sales pitch

but...ummm...thanks...I guess.:idunno:

 

[D.G.C.F.S.]

sorry I did not mean to be disrespectful.

 

[Dark Gift Concepts]

sorry I did not mean to be disrespectful.

Well bro you are alot nicer than I am! But then again you know me..lol

 

[Xue Sheng]

Well bro you are alot nicer than I am! But then again you know me..lol

:shrug: whatever

 

[Dark Gift Concepts]

:shrug: whatever

Not ment in a mean way at all, I just read what he wrote and you come back and tell him off for the caps which okay I understand but went further and did the hole sales pitch thing.. not deserved,, hey my 2cents

 

[Xue Sheng]

see previous post

 

[Dark Gift Concepts]

see previous post

I did, but like I you will defend yourself and your point of view, Respected.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please, return to the original topic.

-Brian R. VanCise
-MartialTalk Super Moderator-

 

[Kacey]

And any of the last several posts relate to the topic of the thread.... how? Please return to the topic at hand; if you wish to discuss something else, please do so in an appropriate location. If you feel someone has behaved inappropriately, please click on the RTM button

rather than debating behavior in-thread.

 

[Dark Gift Concepts]

The question is right in the title of this thread!:ultracool

Do you feel that the Reality Based arts teach in a more effective manner than a TMA?

Yes.

 

[Flying Crane]

hmmm... Reality Based Martial Art... as opposed to what? FANTASY Based Martial Art? Is there such a thing?

There is no distinction, unless an art is specifically meant for performance or non-contact competition. Performance Modern Wushu and XMA performance style arts I would categorize as perhaps a Fantasy Based Martial Art, but that's kind of the end of it. Altho these people can be elite level athletes.

Even a sporting art can be useful for self defense, such as boxing or wrestling. There is a certain amount of common ground between combative sporting competition and real fighting, and skills can carry over from one field to the other.

Anything else, if it is designed for fighting application, is based on a perception of reality and what works. The difference is just in intensity and realism of how it is practiced and trained, and that is something that can vary widely from school to school and person to person, even within the same system. Any art can be practiced for reality. Likewise, any art can be practiced poorly, and not prepare one for reality.

Those who want to make a distinction between Reality Based Arts and Traditional Arts are just pushing their own fantasy. There are too many elements that come into the mix to make such an easy distinction.

 

[Dark Gift Concepts]

There are too many elements that come into the mix to make such an easy distinction.[/QUOTE]

Yes true a .45!