Ranking Martial Arts for Self Defensw

[Oily Dragon]

I think head butts are the best.....for an evolving case of CTE. Some make the case that brain trauma causes a sense of fearlessness and risk taking. I think it might be difficult to assess your own mortality risk, when you only have a fraction of your neurons working. Lead paint as a child also has this tendency. Since I discovered that a lack of cognitive ability causes people a willingness to fight anyone and everyone without a thought to consequence, I've been handing out lead paint chips to all new students free with their first uniform.

Hey some of the best football players in the world have CTE for the same reason.

It works, especially when you're on defense.

 

[Steve]

Ranking arts for "self defense" is really nothing more than pointing out your own bias and preconceived notions.

That’s true. Few here are willing to expose their biases. Heck, I don’t think everyone even understands their own biases, making it impossible to point them out even if they wanted to. Some do, for sure.

As was already pointed out, self defense is a meaningless word. To put any kind of meaning on a list, that list would have to be accompanied by a scenario to explain what self defense is to the author.

If it would help you, I can define self defense for the purposes of this thread. Or if you prefer, you could do it. I’m cool with that.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If it would help you, I can define self defense for the purposes of this thread.

If someone always attacks with "groin kick, face punch" combo, I assume that won't fit in your SD definition.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Few here are willing to expose their biases.

The style of Chinese wrestling is not even mentioned in that video.

 

[drop bear]

Absolutely, but the additional considerations have to do with the nature of the art we are practicing.

We want to develop the skills used by historical sword fighters. But we can't practically/legally/ethically fight each other for real with real swords. We can only practice a relatively safe approximation in the hopes that it is close enough so that the skills would carry over in the event that we were magically transported back into the past.

That's where these other aspects of the art's development come into play. We don't want to end up just getting better and better at competing in a sport which is completely disconnected from the reality of actual historical combat. So we have these additional reality checks (not replacing competition performance, but supplementing them):

Did the people who actually fought with swords for real ever use a particular technique or tactic? If not, there's likely some good reason. Did they only use that technique or tactic in a particular situation or culture or time period? Then there's probably a reason for that too, which we might not figure out just from our tournament results.

Can we actually cut solid objects effectively using the same techniques and body mechanics that we use in sparring? This can take a lot of practice to get good at and it can be difficult to reliably judge in a tournament setting.

Are the sparring rules that we use to approximate actual fighting the best rules we can use for that purpose? It's not hard to end up with a situation where someone gets really good at winning tournaments with tactics which would likely get them killed in a real sword fight*. So we research and experiment in order to get the best approximation(s) we can for developing a skill that we will probably, hopefully never have a chance to test in real life.

*(Alternately, there were also historical fencing competitions which were conducted with non-lethal intent. So another way to run tournaments is to research how those were carried out and match them as closely as we can within the parameters of modern safety concerns.)

Yeah. But we still have that bare knuckle concept where the better striker will generally win. Regarding as to the rule changes.

Even a butt scooting bjj guy will beat a technically more appropriate mma guy. If the bjj guy is just good.

And fights are decided by sportive elements, cardio, physicality, size, timing. More than technique elements.

So reflecting the reality while nice. Isn't as efficient as just being fundamentally good.

 

[Gyakuto]

What we need is a big tournament on a private, millionaire’s island somewhere off Kowloon perhaps, where key representatives of each and every school of combat, fight each other for suprema…oh no, hang on, that’s the plot of ‘Enter the Dragon’…sorry

 

[lklawson]

People spar with German Longsword though.

So theoretically it could be evolving as you get whatever superstars coming up through the ranks.

I suppose that's a fair statement.

 

[lklawson]

What we need is a big tournament on a private, millionaire’s island somewhere off Kowloon perhaps, where key representatives of each and every school of combat, fight each other for suprema…oh no, hang on, that’s the plot of ‘Enter the Dragon’…sorry

What we need is an annual Kumite and Jean Claud van Damme...

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Steve]

Competition is lame. Real martial arts aren't fun, you guys.

 

[Oily Dragon]

What we need is a big tournament on a private, millionaire’s island somewhere off Kowloon perhaps, where key representatives of each and every school of combat, fight each other for suprema…oh no, hang on, that’s the plot of ‘Enter the Dragon’…sorry

I've got the theme song. Doing pushups in prep for the tournament now. Pushups are great for self defense.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

If it's open, there's a place called Casa Bonita that's a theme park restaurant. They have cliff divers and that sort of thing to go with your meal.
If you want to do some touristy things while you're there, drive out to Estes Park, home of the Stanley Hotel, of The Shining fame. It's about 90 minutes from Denver. We stay at the Appenzell Inn when we're in the area. The Stanley has ghost tours and stuff if you're into that sort of thing. Drive/hike/horseback ride through Rocky Mountain National Park. It's gorgeous. And there's a place called Hunters Chop House minutes from the Inn that serves some of the best Bison I've ever had. They serve bison, elk, boar, pheasant, as well as more plebeian fare, like beef.

There is a whole South Park episode on Casa Bonita. I had no idea it was real. Hilarious. I’m more a Sushi/yakitori/bulgogi type. Thanks for the ideas. I plan to see as much as possible, since I will be on my own for a lot of it.

 

[Dirty Dog]

What we need is a big tournament on a private, millionaire’s island somewhere off Kowloon perhaps, where key representatives of each and every school of combat, fight each other for suprema…oh no, hang on, that’s the plot of ‘Enter the Dragon’…sorry

Also Bloodsport.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

There is a whole South Park episode on Casa Bonita. I had no idea it was real. Hilarious. I’m more a Sushi/yakitori/bulgogi type. Thanks for the ideas. I plan to see as much as possible, since I will be on my own for a lot of it.

That was exactly my thought. Thought it was just a south park thing, made up to allow cartman shenanigans.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Competition is lame. Real martial arts aren't fun, you guys.

That’s true. Few here are willing to expose their biases. Heck, I don’t think everyone even understands their own biases, making it impossible to point them out even if they wanted to. Some do, for sure.



If it would help you, I can define self defense for the purposes of this thread. Or if you prefer, you could do it. I’m cool with that.

In my case, I don’t think it is a case of not wanting to expose biases, rather, I don’t believe the premise of the excercise is as stated. Perhaps I am incorrect, but this sure smells like a platform or an opportunity to soapbox for certain sycophantic sympathizers to trot out the very old, dead horse that grappling is best trope. I am not saying that is necessarily wrong, depending on the individual and how that individual trained. I simply do not agree with a style vs style argument. Even if I did believe in such arguments, I am not experienced enough in all these arts to rate or rank them. I watched the video. The bias is clearly exposed there.

 

[Dirty Dog]

There is a whole South Park episode on Casa Bonita. I had no idea it was real. Hilarious. I’m more a Sushi/yakitori/bulgogi type. Thanks for the ideas. I plan to see as much as possible, since I will be on my own for a lot of it.

That was exactly my thought. Thought it was just a south park thing, made up to allow cartman shenanigans.

I swear it's a real place. This is Colorado, where pot is legal. In Denver, they have decriminalized magic mushrooms. So is it any wonder we have Casa Bonita? I mean, on a scale of one to batcrap crazy, Casa Bonita is only like a 3 or 4. You want really crazy? Go to Guffee, where the Mayor is a cat named Monster, and the big yearly event is the Annual Guffey Chicken Fly. I kid you not.

In my case, I don’t think it is a case of not wanting to expose biases, rather, I don’t believe the premise of the excercise is as stated. Perhaps I am incorrect, but this sure smells like a platform or an opportunity to soapbox for certain sycophantic sympathizers to trot out the very old, dead horse that grappling is best trope.

That's my take on it as well. So I'm going to join @Buka in voting for Sinanju. Because it's Korean, and I mostly do Korean Arts.

 

[Steve]

In my case, I don’t think it is a case of not wanting to expose biases, rather, I don’t believe the premise of the excercise is as stated. Perhaps I am incorrect, but this sure smells like a platform or an opportunity to soapbox for certain sycophantic sympathizers to trot out the very old, dead horse that grappling is best trope. I am not saying that is necessarily wrong, depending on the individual and how that individual trained. I simply do not agree with a style vs style argument. Even if I did believe in such arguments, I am not experienced enough in all these arts to rate or rank them. I watched the video. The bias is clearly exposed there.

Sounds good. You don’t need to justify anything to me.

 

[Buka]

Ranking arts for "self defense" is really nothing more than pointing out your own bias and preconceived notions.
As was already pointed out, self defense is a meaningless word.
To put any kind of meaning on a list, that list would have to be accompanied by a scenario to explain what self defense is to the author.

I think you're right about the term "self defense" being meaningless.
I think that is so because it's one of those things that everyone knows it when it's there, but can't properly put it into words.

We've all been in that "uh oh" position where the ship is about to hit the fan.
We all know that feeling when we realize something is about to go down, and we're not likely to get out of it without some kind of physical conflict.

 

[mograph]

We already know the answer to these. Master Ken told us years ago…

Where is Ameri-do-te on the list? Biased!

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I swear it's a real place. This is Colorado, where pot is legal. In Denver, they have decriminalized magic mushrooms. So is it any wonder we have Casa Bonita? I mean, on a scale of one to batcrap crazy, Casa Bonita is only like a 3 or 4. You want really crazy? Go to Guffee, where the Mayor is a cat named Monster, and the big yearly event is the Annual Guffey Chicken Fly. I kid you not.

That's my take on it as well. So I'm going to join @Buka in voting for Sinanju. Because it's Korean, and I mostly do Korean Arts.

I need to find a Sinanju teacher just so I can rank it.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Where is Ameri-do-te on the list? Biased!

It’s just below my ultra secret self defense art made solely for competitions. I can rank it because I have trained extensively with master ken for years via YouTube. Its not biased, just ask me.