Ramblings on Symposium DVD reviews

[DoxN4cer]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
Tim, I asked you to join. I say your reactions and attitude toward being at the symposium to practice and teach, and did not transpose anything from Jerome to you.

Well that's nice to know, Rich. There are others who would still judge me otherwise, not that their opinion matters.

Tim, you are not antagonizing me. You claim to be neutral. I claim to be nuetral in most instances, and have identified most if nto all of the areas I would not be neutral. As Arnisador, stated I am biased and it is unfair to only have my opinion. I was asking for you to work with me to keep me honest, and I will do the same for you, inthe area such as above where your choice of words seem just as negative.

I see... So let's try this: Can we discuss the Symposium and the videos without reference to Dr. Barber? Is that too much to ask for? I mean, I'm trying to bring attention to the positive aspects of the event, and prety much all I get in return is B.M.W. about Dr. Barber this... Dr. Barber that... not just from you, Paul and Tim, but from some of the "good ol' boys" who weren't even there. So you all have determined that he (Dr. Barber) was not a positive aspect of the event, OK, let's move on.

Tim Kashino

 

[DoxN4cer]

Originally posted by bloodwood
More than one person saying the same thing says something.

Why, yes... it does. There's only one person doing all of the thinking. It's easier to let someone do the thinking for you, isn't it. You don't have to form your own opinions or do your own research. How wonderful... group-think can be.

It could mean that many of them are wagon riders and don't have an original thought in their heads. They just go running off at the mouth like parrots...

Ah, I digress... pardon the rant...

Tim Kashino

 

[DoxN4cer]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson

We can all *****, piss and moan about who said what and what wasn't there but I prefer to think about what we did and who was there. The DVDs reflect the training at the camp and I still say for the price, they are a steal.

Well said, Dan. Right on.


Tim Kashino

 

[DoxN4cer]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
Instructors crossed continents and oceans to arrive and teach for nothing.

That in itself is truly remarkable and rare. You don't see that every day.



Tim Kashino

 

[DoxN4cer]

Ah, here we go way off track again. I can't resist though...

Originally posted by Rich Parsons


...Now, if you told me the two were exchanging old stories about Remy's class mates (* Tabaoda's Instructors, or Instructor to his instructor *), or that they were both reviewing stuff they had learned. I would agree. If you were to tell me that Bobby was showing Remy some of the stuff added in by his lineage, then I would also agree...

...Yet to imply, that Taboada Balintawak influenced Modern Arnis in any significant way, I cannot believe. I will believe that Balintawak as it was taught to Remy by his three instructors, including Anciong Bacon, influenced Modern Arnis...

Rich (Parsons), I was there and that was exactly what they were doing. They played with each other, and I recall GM Taboada commenting that "He (The Professor) hasn't forgotten anything".

Was it GM Taboada's Balintawak that influenced Modern Arnis?

No. However many Modern Arnis people were introduced to GM Taboada in 1992 and began training regularly with him. GM Taboada may not have influenced the Professor's Modern Arnis, but it did have a profound effect on the practice of many Modern Arnis people.

Furthermore, before GM Taboada hit the scene, the Professor hadn't really started the big push of Tapi Tapi being the "end-all/be-all" part of Modern Arnis. I think that this was already in the back of his mind, but working with GM Taboada and other Balintawak exponents appears to have sparked something in him. So you can say that there is atleast "some" influence there, Rich.

However, interms of "whose" Balintawak really influenced Modern Arnis... It's all Bacon's Balintawak, whather or not it is now studied in the grouped or ungrouped methods of learning. The principles of the are remain the same regardless of how it is packaged.

To discount the validity of "Taboada Balintawak" being taught at a Modern Arnis event is not only narrow minded, but also discounts the validity of all Balintawak being taught by anyone within the context of any Modern Arnis framework.

It all came from the same source.


Tim Kashino

Rich Parsons, please e-mail me. I have a message for you.

 

[DoxN4cer]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
... These people changed it, added to it, took away from, and then called it their own. So, how can it be all the same. Similar, YES, the same no.

PS: Tim K working on e-mailing you.

Your comparing the packaging and the window dressing, Rich. Deep down at the core the same fundamental concepts are the same. It is undeniable. Go train with GM Taboada or any other Balintawak guy and see for yourself. The package may look a little different, but the candy inside is the same.

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
This is nice to hear. Were you there in 1987 at the Michigan Camp when Rocky and Remy gave an excellant display of sitck work, that was more Balintawak deriviative than Main Stream Modern Arnis? So, I know THE MAN (* Remy Presas *) Had it. And yes I say then and before in 1986, and videos from early 80's of semi sparring that was or is Tapi-Tapi with leg strikes. In 1987, I worked with Dr. Randi Schea at a camp as Remy was teaching the basics of this drill then.

Well Rich, with the state of flux that the Professor kept the system in as he developed it, "tapi-tapi" was always there in concept. He called it a number of things before settling on the term "tapi-tapi". I never said that the Professor hadn't taught it prior to 1992. He codified it and started really pushing it then, particularly after so many people started exploring Balintawak.

I agree with you that GM Taboada's arrival on the scene probably influenced the Professor to develop and release tapi-tapi a little quicker than he might/might not have have. It was a more matter of marketing than anything else.

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
Why as Rich C pointed out that no one can agree what is Modern Arnis. Yet, when asked, people will say yes this in Balintawak or this is Villasin Balintawak, or Moncal Balintawak, or Maranga Tres Special, or Taboada Balintawak. I can tell you why they have the name difference and can make the distinction. These people changed it, added to it, took away from, and then called it their own.

You mean Maranga's Tres Personas, right? BTW, you forgot Dr. Go, Delfin Lopez, Henry Jamie and the Atillos to name a few.

Anyway, the people you mentioned took an "informal" system and formalized it. Bacon had a fierce reputation as a fighter, but as an instructor he didn't have a solid curriculm for his predcessors to follow. They made it fit their own needs in terms of instructional framework. That made it easier to learn as well as easier to teach. They kept the core of what makes the system what it is and codified it the better facilitate it's instruction when the founder could no longer teach. Does that make it their interpretation of the art less viable? No. It does not.

Step out of the box and see for yourself, Rich. Make the comparison once you've seen more of what's out there. You'll see what I mean.

Tim Kashino

 

[DoxN4cer]

Originally posted by PAUL
That being said...the instructors who were on the bill at first were strictly Modern Arnis from different era's. When they backed out, we needed fillers, and many of the fillers didn't teach strictly Remy Presas Arnis, turning the event into something different then what it was created for.

Does anybody teach "strictly Remy Presas Modern Arnis"?


Tim Kashino

 

[DoxN4cer]

OK RIch, maybe it's time for athread split.

 

[DoxN4cer]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons


I though Tapi-Tapi and hte term and the right on right was around in 1988 maybe 1989, still three years before 1992.

There were a number of terms that the Professor seemed to be using... first in the earlier days (according to many seniors) he just called it de kadena, then later the term tapik-tapik surfaced, then there was de cedario as well. He may have been searching for a term that met his satisfaction.

Tim

 

[DoxN4cer]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons


I am confused Tim K. It could be because it is late and I need sleep. On one hand you tell me they are the same meaning the different family trees of Balintawak and yet you claim that GM Bobby Taboada had a major influence on the Tapi-Tapi Drill. Would not Modern Arnis also be a rose by another name from the Balintawak Family then by your arguing?

Can you clarify? Sorry.

Yes Rich, you need some sleep. I'm not arguing. The issue is not that GM Taboada's Balnitawak influenced the tapi-tapi drill. I never stated that. Perhaps you should re-read the previous posts? I simply stated that the Professor's big push for "the Art of Tapi-Tapi" being the grand ultimate phase of Modern Arnis seemed to happen when as Balintawak became more accessable to the public with the arrival of GM Taboada.

I always believed that the higher concepts in Modern Arnis were pretty much Balnitawak material. The influence from GM Taboada was not on the technique or drill. It was on how much Balintawak the Professor was going to let out of the bag and into the market.


Tim Kashino

 

[DoxN4cer]

Danm, Rich! You're a cranky SOB when you're tired. I'm not twisting your post into something that they aren't. I'm being very genuine in posing questions here and engage in objective and constructive conversations, whether they a technical of conceptual. If I sound argumentative, it is due to the shortcomings of communicating in text. You can't "hear" tone and inflection with your eyes. If I am short in my posts it is usually due to the fact that I'm short on time, and I simply don't have the time to ramble on elaborating on the issue.

Get a thicker skin, Rich. I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but it appears that my past affiliations are still an issue in your mind and perhaps in the minds of others here as well. If that's the case then maybe there's no point in continuing the conversation. Is there?

Tim Kashino

 

[Tgace]

"Moreover, a mind that is negligent and forgetful of death will beget a lack of prudence. Arguments will be started over insensitive speech, and controversies will flare up concerning matters that could have been finished simply by ignoring them.
While walking around without reserve in the midst of crowds on useless temple sight-seeing trips, bumping into strange fools and getting into unexpected fights, one will lose his life, drag out the honored name of his lord, and bring trouble on his family. All these disasters occur from the negligence of not keeping death constantly in mind. When one does have death constantly in mind, being of warrior rank, he will understand the importance of discrimination in words, both in addressing others and in answering what others have addressed to him. He will have no reasonless arguments because of this, and, of course, will not go to 'unnecessary places even when invited. Thus, he will not get involved with any unexpected issues. For this reason it is said that one can avoid myriad evils and disasters." -The BushidoShoShinShu

I was going to post a long rant about how unwarrior like EVERYBODYS words and deeds have been lately, this quote is much more elegant....

:asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Copied thread for this discussions, and I kept the thread complete to see the progression.

Other thread on DVD has been pruned
:asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by DoxN4cer
Danm, Rich! You're a cranky SOB when you're tired. I'm not twisting your post into something that they aren't. I'm being very genuine in posing questions here and engage in objective and constructive conversations, whether they a technical of conceptual. If I sound argumentative, it is due to the shortcomings of communicating in text. You can't "hear" tone and inflection with your eyes. If I am short in my posts it is usually due to the fact that I'm short on time, and I simply don't have the time to ramble on elaborating on the issue.

Get a thicker skin, Rich. I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but it appears that my past affiliations are still an issue in your mind and perhaps in the minds of others here as well. If that's the case then maybe there's no point in continuing the conversation. Is there?

Tim Kashino

Ok Tim, Let us call a detante and discuss.

You no longer assume I and others are assuming you are Jerome's Boy.

I will no longer assume that you are trying to change my words to have others upset with me.
:asian:


As to the tone of the words and not hearng or seeing, I have said the same thing. So let us discuss.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hey Guys, I just got off the phone with Tom Bolden. (* Ok it was about an hour ago, I was working on the threads and getting caught up before posting. *) We talked about an hour and a half and it was enjoyable.

I forgot to ask him something and will call him back in the near future, yet I found it very interesting that his views and comments aligned with those I had posted previously. More detail later after I follow up, and clear details with Panung Guro Tom Bolden Pancipanci Escrima
:asian:

 

[DoxN4cer]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson
Guys! Guys!

Don't make me come over there and force beer down your throats! I'll do it!

Yours,
Dan

I don't think you can!!!! Come on bring it on. hehehe

Tim

 

[DoxN4cer]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
Ok Tim, Let us call a detante and discuss.

You no longer assume I and others are assuming you are Jerome's Boy.

I will no longer assume that you are trying to change my words to have others upset with me.
:asian:


As to the tone of the words and not hearng or seeing, I have said the same thing. So let us discuss.

That's good to hear.

Promise?

Just remember Rich; the human mind, like a parachute, works best whan it is open. I'm looking forward to continuing exchanges with you, both here and in private.

Tim Kashino

 

[Dan Anderson]

Ahhhh, boys. It looks like I won't have to come out there and force beer down your respective throats after all. Saves me money.

One thing for sure, the DVD thread is going to remain polarized due to the effects the Symposium had on others and the relatively negative reviews posted and the banterings of the behind the scenes business. And the sales will suffer because of it or hopefully (for George Denson's sake) they'll increase because of curiousity of what all the fuss is about.

Rich,
It's been threee months. Check out your videos in a new unit of time. They're pretty good. You'll even see you a lot.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Cruentus]

Tim K: I'm not sure why you keep implying that Rich is close minded. I don't think that he has been close minded....well....ever, at least not since I have met him.

Dan: I will say that I don't intend to give a biased opinion on the DVD's myself. When I do view them, I plan on forgetting any bad taste that the event may have left regarding the sideline issues, and just looking at them for what they are. I will post my unbiased opinion of them when I have the chance to view them.

Also, I do hope that sales don't suffer for Goerges sake; I thought he was a pretty good guy.