We've removed a post by PAUL from this thread.
-Arnisador
-MT Admin-
-Arnisador
-MT Admin-
Originally posted by Tgace
You aint just whistlin' dixie brother...and Im talking criminal charges here. Civil suits are a whole other kettle o' fish.
Tgace,
No disrespect, and I agree that it would be nice to have everyoen play nice. Yet as Arnisador, stated there were more than one who were involved with the dance. And given the previous data as I stated, it would be hard for a DA to take this case and make it stick. Many times they do not want to even deal with actual physical violence when it was/is mutual. ONly if one side was outnumbered by significant numbers, (* Significant being vague *) or by a large force of violence such as one using a weapon.
Now given that, there is always the assistant DA or DA that just might take a case and run wth it to make a point.
Does this excuse anyones comments or posts on or off of this thread? No it does not.
:asian:
Tim,
You may have stated with your first post that you were no longer under or associated with Jerome. Yet given your name or tag here, and that Jerome introduced you as such at the symposium, I believe this caused many a raised eyebrow. You continue to state you wish to be separate. I can see your desire for such. It is just the that perceptions of the view that you constantly come to is defense, and also fan flames yourself, even if it is not meatn intentionally. So, it is perceived as Paul is to Tim H, then Tim K is to Jerome. I say this so you can try to change the perception for yourself. Nothing more, no hidden agendas.
As to the Jerome Bashing parties, you keep bring this up and this fan's the flame. In particular with me. I do not like what was done on and off of the floor of the meeting/gathering in Bufflao. I do not like the the way it was organized, or information announced before and during the event. And I also do not like what happened after. It was projected as a complete success and that no one came away unhappy and that all was well. I am here to tell you this is far from the truth. Yet, as many a person has mentioned it is four months, maybe we should let the past go? Yet, it is hard with these type of comments. You see, your comments implies that my opinion and data and facts were incorrect.
Are they incorrect Tim K?
Please tell me the whole experience was just a bad dream. I can wake up now. Please tell me this. I have tried to accept your apolgoes and statements on and off of this board, and to take you at face value. Yet the perception you are presenting here is that I was bashing Jerome for no good reason. You see, I have been and could be positive with this event as long as we discussed the instructors separately, or a person individually. When it comes the Managing and presentation and hosting of this event, I was aware of people who told me they had pulled out and woudl not be there. No comment from Jerome or anyone. I thought this was mis-representation or even fraud. Yet, how do I prove such a claim, on the internet or even in court. It would be difficult. You see I signed up, and paid, and did not get what I paid for. This gives me the 100% right to make a statment about quality of the event and the hosting, etc, ..., . So, it has been difficult to keep quiet and only release information as needed to make people think before they post anymore.
Tim K, Should I go write a complete point of view from me about this event, from before the after? Would that really help everyone get along? Woudl that make it better for everyone to know all the little details? And yes I have little secrets, and yes I want to keep them quiet. Yet, when someone calls me a liar, I feel I have to defend myself. Yes, Tim, you have called me a liar, or at elast that is the perception of what you have said. We can argue symantics if you wish. Yet in the end it all boils down to perceptions. On one hand I see you trying to be positive and trying to communicate and learn, yet on the other hand your insulting to me here and elsewhere, even though you stated you never meant it as such. Yet, it keeps coming up. I apologize for having thin skin as many people claim here. You can call me names, I have been called them all my life. Insert Racial or religious slur here!. Yes, pick the worst insult you can think of, including "White Boy" or even "Wasp" and I have been called it. I can live with that, I may not like it, yet I can live it.
It is the attacks to my character, that I take exception too. Both, you and Jerome have implied at one time or another I have not been honest. Yes this is true. I have hidden the data from the public. Should, I poke everyone in the eye with a complete detailed history of the event from my point of view? Would this solve anything? Would this help?
I think Not. You?
Tim K, I agree, yet I do not think it will happen. Yet it would resolve a lot of the problems. Yet, violence does not always solve all problems.
Once again Tim K, maybe if you were not the first to come to Jerome's counter points. Maybe if you would let Jerome come to his own replies before you, or let him handle it alone between the person he is having the problem with. This preception of your beign separate, yet always 110% supporting and coming to his aid, is what I am talking about. I am not telling you or asking you not to post, only think about it a lot first. Woudl this really help? Would this comment insult those not currently involved, or might it bring someone back who is quiet on this subject now? Like i said Tim K it may not be your intent, yet it is your impact.
(* This is not a quote, and is someone finds it great post it so I can get it exactly right, This is who I remember the media reports and write ups, both vocal and written. *)
The Supreme Court of the United States, ruled that in cases of Harassment, and in particular sexual, it is not the intent of the person making the comment of jesture, it is the impact of the person receiving the comment or jesture.
(* End of comment *)
Yes, you cannot protect yourself from every person out there, from taking offense. Yet, you can try not to push known hot buttons, intentionally or not.
Regards
loki09789
Senior Master
I love this! Now we want to debate the law! This is so much about ego that it is ridiculous. TgAce,(Tom) is a cop who deals with the pressing of charges and serving of warrants everyday. Can't anyone just say "your right" about something and leave it at that?
Ulitimately, the point is that any threats that are made can come back and bite people in the a&*. As American citizens we are subject to the laws of our states/fed governments. Armchair the law all you want, but warrants issued over thinner stuff that this, any LEO's can attest to that from experience and not conjecture. The words of the law are clear. You may 'win' in the end or it might be hard to make charges 'stick', but that doesn't mean that there won't be paper somewhere that could impact your life.
This is a publicly accessible forum. The statements here are reproducable. Yes, we could counter for counter in litigation and civil court. The point is that if you get charged with harrassment or anything else you will have to take time away from home, work... to deal with it in court, or at least the courthouse...
Is this worth it?
Paul Martin
Ulitimately, the point is that any threats that are made can come back and bite people in the a&*. As American citizens we are subject to the laws of our states/fed governments. Armchair the law all you want, but warrants issued over thinner stuff that this, any LEO's can attest to that from experience and not conjecture. The words of the law are clear. You may 'win' in the end or it might be hard to make charges 'stick', but that doesn't mean that there won't be paper somewhere that could impact your life.
This is a publicly accessible forum. The statements here are reproducable. Yes, we could counter for counter in litigation and civil court. The point is that if you get charged with harrassment or anything else you will have to take time away from home, work... to deal with it in court, or at least the courthouse...
Is this worth it?
Paul Martin
Nope.
Me personally, I'm done with the whole thing. At some point in the future, once things have cooled down a bit and we can all take a step back, I'll most likely have a chat with Dr. Barber. Right now, everyones too tightly wound up, and there is the chance that tempers might flare up. Please note, I'm not directing that at Dr.B, but -ALL- of us. I've got enough LEO's in my family to have heard some interesting tales..especially on those quiet ones. Stuff happens.
I don't believe there is a threat to my safety in Dr. Barbers words. In any event, if harm were to fall on myself or mine, there would be legal, social, and economic fallout that I honestly don't believe that words on a forum warrent. I've been directly threatened publically in the past...this isn't perceived as a threat. I greatly appreciate Pauls support, however his choice of words left us no choice but to take action.
I look forward to getting together with as many folks as I can to bang sticks, roll, spar, etc. in a friendly manner. We can all learn from each other, I think. Most of this 'stick measuring' really serves little purpose other than to divide us...we are all students and we are all teachers.
Let us put this mess behind us, and move forward together, even if some of us must be apart to be together.
(Please note, I'm minimally on line at the moment due to moving and rewiring of my network, so my replies may take a while)
Paul M,
It is not worth it.
Yet, I am debating the law. I have been involved with being the subject of a Personal Protection order, the requesting of a personal Protection Order. The reciepient of a warrent for witness. I have been questioned all night long for being involved, numerous times. I have been involved with both criminal and cival suits. It costs lots of money. Is it worth it? No it is not. Yet, I have the priviledge as being a citizen to debate the law.
In Michigan, if I claim someone is agressive to me, then if you enter within one foot of my person then you have assaulted me. You have not battered me. You can also state that the one foot area around us both could be extended to the one foot area around the opponent, to get a two foot area. This is debateable by the lawyer and the judge. This is debateable also by the police officer at the site. Does he even wish to take the report.
Domestic violence goes both ways, yet there are officers out there that did not wish to right up the report, when my wife's boyfrined showed up to beat me up. I had called 911 ( I had called twice, they were not sending out anyone until after I called twice. And this was to tell me to stop bothering them, Was I supposed to handle it myself?). The female officer that showed up, assumed that I was the agressor. She pulled her gun and then cuffed me and shoved me in the back of her car. Talked to them, the wife and boyfriend, then as backup showed up she dragged me of out the car and un cuffed me and then put me back in, so that her supervisor could not see me in cuffs. When she frisked me, I took a ridge hand to each gonad as she checked for weapons. Yes the officer's safety is a concern. Yet, she never would let me speak. And I do not argue with a loaded gun being pointed at me. So, yes I debate the law. I debate her right to be able to pull her gun on me. Yet, all she had to say was she felt threatened by my size, and that domestics are dangerous. I had to take this one.
So, yes I exercise my right to know the law. I exercise my priviledge to debate the law. I do not argue with the officer since it is his call at the moment. I just do not speak without my lawyer if I feel like it is a raw deal. I have talked to DA's and judges, defending myself and also with lawyers present. I recommend getting legal advice when it is available or possible.
Yet, it does break down to does the police officer feel like doing the paperwork. Does he think his sergeant or shift supervisor will back him on this. It does depend on if the DA, wishes to press charges or are their more important cases to be handled.
And as being, a police officer, what does this mean? Should I refer all my legal questions to him? In Michigan there is a confusing law on knife blade size. How do you measure the blade length to make sure it is legal? Please How do I? In Arizona the size is different, how do I carry a blade from state to state that might be legal in one and not the other. No disrespect, to Tgace, yet does he know?
Did you know that if you see a 'M' in a license plate and all numbers, with the designation of Manufacturers Plate, that by agreement for the licensing of this vehicle a test must be in progress at the time of operating the vehicle? Did you know that every state recipicates this but Arizona? Did you know that you cannot cross the US Border with one of these cars, as it is not then insured in the other country, and is importing products.
So, Paul M, to answer your question, is it worth it? I would say no. Have I done and lived though it and cost me money and time yes? Will it happen again? I do not know it would all depend on the situation.
Yet, I will not just be intimidated, by the presense of a police officer, and the quoting of a law I have not read from an official website nor in the offical published statutes. I will take it under advisment, as I do all advise.
Should I go get some of my police friends to post here on counter points? And because they are an official officer they should be listened to above all others? That is like saying I train the Genesee County Sheriff's department, when one deputy is or was in one of my classes? I do not see the connection.
And yes, I am debating the issue. For you see I told Jerome I took offense to his post, given the data I have about this guy who wants to train with Bob. And now all those who know Jerome in a friendly manner come to his aid. The perception is still there that you one his loyal supporters.
So, Paul M. Tim K has called me a liar. Now you have called me an armchair lawyer, and also a liar. Well, you see this is how I perceive it.
Yet, once again, if everyone would just be quiet on both sides and or really really think about their posts before hitting submit, then maybe we could get by this.
Yet, I think it will take more then just this request. If I lock a thread another one starts up. If people play nice for a while then they slip in a little jab, then from there, the level of contact increases, back and forth.
Yes, Ultimately the threats made, including those by Jerome, that I and obviously Paul, even though he is suspended for his reply, thought it was a threat, should be addressed.
So, Paul M, as a friend of Jerome's what should I do about Jerome? Should I file a charge against him for his threat? Should I argue for him to suspend him for his threat? Should I argue for the removal his post?
As Jerome has tried to dictate policy to me on and off this baord previously. I am asking now for your opinion and the of Tgace as well, since he is a police officer and a legal officer of the court. Tell me should I now argue for Jerome to have the same punishment as Paul. Since his post started this discussion? Since his post was also construed to be a threat?
Or Should I go down to local police department and file a charge? Or do I contact the FBI since it crossed state lines?
I am serious here. How do I follow up here to get this resolved?
So, if I was to say you are right. And to say I am not allowed to debate the law, then please advise me, as to how I can proceed?
Please with you legal advise, and experience, please tell me how do I press charges against Jerome. How do I make it work?
You see Jerome used the Term "White Boy", In Michigan, when you take a simple assault which is a misdemeanor and add in any type of racial slur, then it becomes a felony.
Oh, yes I have taken offense to Jerome's usage of that phrase. Just as I took offense at the Symposium, when he made his racial and anti-semitic comments.
Will this end if I press the charges? Will it end then???
Please advise me in your legal advise.
I know I have asked a lot of questions and repeated some many times. Yet, I am not trying to be sarcastic, I am truly trying to understand.
Waiting for an honest reply and answer to my questions.
(*
I see that Bob, has made a post that will make some of my questions not applicable. Yet I would still like to hear about te other questions.
Thank You
*)
Tgace
Grandmaster
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
- Messages
- 7,766
- Reaction score
- 409
Jeeeezz guys settle down. I SAID THAT I DONT THINK THINGS HAVENT GOTTEN TO THIS POINT YET. My point was that many of the people involved in this discussion know each other (and subject to the NYS penal law) and if they continue down this road things could get ugly over what ammounts to nothing.
Mr. Parsons, I have no problem debating the Law and have no illusion of superiority. What Paul said has a point. Sometimes its all about who gets to a police report first and warrants are issued. Yes it would probably all get tossed in court, but who has the time to waste over such pointless c$@p? Ive seen people locked up over less.
And Mr. Hubbard I agree totally....that was my whole point.
Mr. Parsons, I have no problem debating the Law and have no illusion of superiority. What Paul said has a point. Sometimes its all about who gets to a police report first and warrants are issued. Yes it would probably all get tossed in court, but who has the time to waste over such pointless c$@p? Ive seen people locked up over less.
And Mr. Hubbard I agree totally....that was my whole point.
OP
Rocky
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #68
Hey guys keep it coming this is awesome, and Remy always said I was a trouble maker.
Common Paul tell us what you reallly think, Jerome don't stop!! You got them right where you want them. Master Anderson boy you should really be upset after what I heard them all say about you!!! ( of course that might of been on the day I was trying to quite LSD) Anyways I thought I heard something so quick go them!! Tim!!!! You madman you are forever getting into trouble.
Ya know their just might be something in the water in Buffalo.
Tim you need to get this stuff on a cable show, it'd be like Springer with sticks!!!! You e the host I'll be the lovable boucer that the woman all love.
Rocky
Common Paul tell us what you reallly think, Jerome don't stop!! You got them right where you want them. Master Anderson boy you should really be upset after what I heard them all say about you!!! ( of course that might of been on the day I was trying to quite LSD)
Anyways I thought I heard something so quick go them!! Tim!!!! You madman you are forever getting into trouble. Ya know their just might be something in the water in Buffalo.
Tim you need to get this stuff on a cable show, it'd be like Springer with sticks!!!! You e the host I'll be the lovable boucer that the woman all love.
Rocky
I've tried to keep quiet but this one I have a BIG problem with.
Jerome, this is the pot calling the kettle black. You have a long history of doing this and on several occasions you brought your students with you.
Yes, I agree what Paul M said has a point.
I also agree that what I said has a point.
I will not just sit back and say nothing or be told to be quiet just because someone is a police officer.
Let me give a quick example.
I am an engineer. Therefore you cannot talk about the angles of attack, as you obviously do not understand them like I do, as I know angles like no one else since I use them every day in my work. Oh Wait Even I cannot talk about the angles, as I do not have an M.D. or D.O. to tell you the best place to put that angled attacked.
As to wasting time in court over crap, well I have done it before. Was it costly? Yes. Did I like it? No way. Yet I will not let the threat from someone stop me from posting my point of view, or the data as I see it or know it.
Yes, I have had polite discussion on and off this board through e-mail with Tgace, and I assumed he never really meant me any problems.
Yet, it is my point that it all depends upon who takes the report. It is not as cut and dry, from my experience, as people sometimes make it out to be.
Tgace no harm no foul :asian:
Tgace
Grandmaster
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
- Messages
- 7,766
- Reaction score
- 409
My point wasnt to squash anybodys freedom of speech. My point was that this is a public forum and as things descend into threats and aggressive speech, trouble could come of it. By all means argue, debate and discuss...i enjoy reading it (thats why Im here) just remember where the line is.
As A Moderator of Martial Talk, it is my Responsibility to make sure that people feel like they can post without be squashed as you say. Thank you for your follow up.
Rich Parsons
MT Moderator
:asian:
I enjoy a good debate/discussion/arguement. Just so long as people keep it friendly, and play by the rules.
:asian:
loki09789
Senior Master
Rich,
I have no idea where all that came from but my point is this:
"Why can' people just say 'your right'"
...about this downhill spiral of communication and decency.
...about the fact that TGace said it hasn't gotten to the chargable level of BS yet
...about the fact that there are greater powers than forum rules that we have the responsibility to adhere to as citizens.
...about the fact that TGace made have a point, based on the personal experience that warrants and arrests have been made on seemingly stupid things - some of which he has had to deal with personally - not necessarily a superior position of experience or exclusive rights to that experience, just experience.
No where in that post did I/Me claim to have any legal expertise or did I say that Tom had exclusive rights to legal discussion on this forum.
Paul Martin
I have no idea where all that came from but my point is this:
"Why can' people just say 'your right'"
...about this downhill spiral of communication and decency.
...about the fact that TGace said it hasn't gotten to the chargable level of BS yet
...about the fact that there are greater powers than forum rules that we have the responsibility to adhere to as citizens.
...about the fact that TGace made have a point, based on the personal experience that warrants and arrests have been made on seemingly stupid things - some of which he has had to deal with personally - not necessarily a superior position of experience or exclusive rights to that experience, just experience.
No where in that post did I/Me claim to have any legal expertise or did I say that Tom had exclusive rights to legal discussion on this forum.
Paul Martin
OP
Rocky
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #75
Paul M. & Tgace are right in their post of what could happen if things get go to far on any public forum. As the Great Ray Terry, the grand poobah of the Eskrima Digest once told me everything written on these public forums can and most likely will be held against you in a court of law, should things ever get that far. i check this with my walking encyclopedia of Law Master Edwards and one of my attorneys and they both confirmed the poobahs warning.
Paul this is one reason why on the other post about the tactical stuff, I didn't write about many of the things , not nessecarily techniques but methods I use when teaching self defence. I will give you something to ponder, of course I will only give you the ansewer in person, for the above mentioned reasons. But most of the methods ( unarmed) that police officers use will get a person hurt or sued. And if you practice BJJ or Small Circle JJ , your odds may dramatically increase for being sued in a court of law, and again its not from technique!!!
Gotch ya think'n don't I!!!!
This is why I say Paul, a person should aways own a good lawyer, a judge if possible and aways no which cops (in your area if you own or do business in a certain area) are for sale! It works for the Kennedy's!!!! I didn't make these rules I just learned the game!! Doesn't make me a bad guy and it doesn't make all law enforcement people bad
Rocky
Paul this is one reason why on the other post about the tactical stuff, I didn't write about many of the things , not nessecarily techniques but methods I use when teaching self defence. I will give you something to ponder, of course I will only give you the ansewer in person, for the above mentioned reasons. But most of the methods ( unarmed) that police officers use will get a person hurt or sued. And if you practice BJJ or Small Circle JJ , your odds may dramatically increase for being sued in a court of law, and again its not from technique!!!
Gotch ya think'n don't I!!!!
This is why I say Paul, a person should aways own a good lawyer, a judge if possible and aways no which cops (in your area if you own or do business in a certain area) are for sale! It works for the Kennedy's!!!! I didn't make these rules I just learned the game!! Doesn't make me a bad guy and it doesn't make all law enforcement people bad
Rocky
loki09789
Senior Master
Rocky,
ROCK! Under all that bluster there is wisdom and judgement
I understand about the silence. The Kenpo covered fist is to represent "I conceal my treasure", and if you answered you would be lifting your skirt awfully high from your stand point.
As far as enforcement officers, if you tell them that you want to press charges, they are obligated as public servants to do so. If they refuse, take it higher (shift supervisor, Police Chief/Commisioner...Councilman). It is a shame that you have found less than honorable public servants, but I truly believe that they are the minority of the population (Is someone going to accuse me of racism now?) of LEO.
Two general rules when it comes to self defense and reporting I have found useful:
1. Tell dispatchers/LEO what action you want to take ("I want to press charges")
2. Be the first one filing paper.
Other than that, on the tactical line, I just meant what kind of awareness training/tactical mindset training (color codes, reporting procedures...) do you bring out for your students, I didn't want to dive into your skeleton closet.
Paul Martin
ROCK! Under all that bluster there is wisdom and judgement
I understand about the silence. The Kenpo covered fist is to represent "I conceal my treasure", and if you answered you would be lifting your skirt awfully high from your stand point.
As far as enforcement officers, if you tell them that you want to press charges, they are obligated as public servants to do so. If they refuse, take it higher (shift supervisor, Police Chief/Commisioner...Councilman). It is a shame that you have found less than honorable public servants, but I truly believe that they are the minority of the population (Is someone going to accuse me of racism now?
) of LEO.Two general rules when it comes to self defense and reporting I have found useful:
1. Tell dispatchers/LEO what action you want to take ("I want to press charges")
2. Be the first one filing paper.
Other than that, on the tactical line, I just meant what kind of awareness training/tactical mindset training (color codes, reporting procedures...) do you bring out for your students, I didn't want to dive into your skeleton closet.
Paul Martin
OP
Rocky
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #77
Not sure if I have the right person, but Bob I beleave the owner of this fine forum. ( by the way all kidding a side you have done a hell of a job) But!!!! the way the laws are now a days some dirt bag lawyer, (Like mine ) might want to see how deep your pockets are when Master Anderson losses his mind some day and flys out here to Michigan and kicks my ***, because I called him "OLD" one to many times . You see without this fine vessel of communications that potential situation might have never accurred! Oh and let me guess some lawyer told you to form a Corp., LLC, or S Corp. to protect yourself, right!!! Well guess again, it doesn't work on our scale, my pitt bull will chew that up for a snack.
Its ashame as martial artist you need to be aware of this crap, but you can give thanks to all those guys who became Lawyers not to do good but to stay out of Veitnam, thus creating a glut of Attorneys with little good work for them, so they learned to twist and turn the constitution, and various laws to get money from where ever and whomever thay can, and in the end we regular people pay the price.
Done preaching for now!
Rocky
) might want to see how deep your pockets are when Master Anderson losses his mind some day and flys out here to Michigan and kicks my ***, because I called him "OLD" one to many times . You see without this fine vessel of communications that potential situation might have never accurred! Oh and let me guess some lawyer told you to form a Corp., LLC, or S Corp. to protect yourself, right!!! Well guess again, it doesn't work on our scale, my pitt bull will chew that up for a snack.Its ashame as martial artist you need to be aware of this crap, but you can give thanks to all those guys who became Lawyers not to do good but to stay out of Veitnam, thus creating a glut of Attorneys with little good work for them, so they learned to twist and turn the constitution, and various laws to get money from where ever and whomever thay can, and in the end we regular people pay the price.
Done preaching for now!
Rocky
OP
Rocky
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #78
Hey everyone I got promoted!! Wow!!
Hey if I went to the TKD forum, I'd probably be black belt by now wouldn't I :rofl:
EWW, I can tell that ain't going to settle well with some folks:shrug:
Rocky
Hey if I went to the TKD forum, I'd probably be black belt by now wouldn't I :rofl:
EWW, I can tell that ain't going to settle well with some folks:shrug:
Rocky
Paul M,
I have conceeded that what you have said has a point.
Yet I never hear you saying what I say has a point???? Is this a one way street?
You came across in your post, upset and agnry at me for posting back to Tgace about the law he supposedly quoted. I say supposedly, since I do not ofr sure it si one. I will take it as it, yet I will not confirm it. You acted like I had no right to discuss this issue. Therefore I dropped it back in your lap?
So, Tell me Paul M, am I wrong that Jerome and others played a game at the symposium? Am I wrong that there is perceived to be two plus camps between Tim H and Jerome. Am I wrong, in saying that wish for this to end, yet you still seem to want the last word, and for everyone to admit you are right? You see your instructor taught me that one. I took it private, and he made it seem onths later like he was right since I did not reply publically. So, yes I keep it here, until everyone agrees tat we all have a side. Yet, I cannot get that out of you. You never say that anyone else is right, only you and your friends.
You post made it seem like I was a bad boy to argue with a police officer who knows the law. Sorry charlie, I know some of the law also. With the exception of the police and maybe a lawyer, I would bet I know more about the overall law then the average person here. I would also contend that I know more areas, as many people who work in the law field have specialties.
Yet, I mentioned that it depends on a lot of things? Was I wrong?
Oh I admitted that it could go to court. I admitted that it could. Paul M, did you know I could also infer from your post that you were threatening me with police action from your friend Tgace? Yet, you never seem to allow for the otherside to have any valid ponts no matter how small or large. So, I am sorry, you jsut want me to admit you are right.
Yes, you are right that it could go to court. I have said it before.
You are right their are laws that people have to answer too. Yet, if you and everyone else would actually follow the forum rules then the law would never have to be called into this.
I also took you follow up that MT and myself and others ahd be careful or you would send the law after me. I was just telling you, to bring it. I want to bring the law on certain parties as well. Would it look good for the publicity of a police officer to be accuse of intimiadation over the internet. Tgace as followed up, statng otherwise, yet the publicity in the media and in his station woudl not be good for his carear. How about you, if brought you up on charges of intimidation? Or talked to a college about a supposed event, that would not look good in the media either. People may or may not loose their jobs. they may or may not loose money going to court. What I was saying is that I do not believe I have the most to loose int this case. And yes, I have still not learned the lesson from Uncle Rock, that certain fights are not worth commiting suicide over. Yet, to make my point, and to have my day in court to get my say, and to see if an impartial person beleives that I might be right. I will take that chance. Yet, it could be avoided real easy if jsut once in a while you took your own advice.
I could ramble for ever on this. YOu get my point. Play nice, do not tell me how to act. Do not tell me how to reply. Do not tell me I do not have the Right to get my own lawyer and take it to court.
Oh yeah maybe once in a while acnowledge that I might have a point, yet you disagree with it. This goes a long way.
So, Paul M. Like I said, think before hitting submit. There already is anomosity between people, and the worse is assumed.
So, yes you are right that it could go to court.
Yet am I right that if everyone played by the forum rules and acknowledge the otther person's point of view the law would never have to be called into this? Am I?
Waiting to see what you have to say.
Tgace
Grandmaster
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
- Messages
- 7,766
- Reaction score
- 409
MAN everybody chill! I post a section of the NYS penal law and look what happens (by the way it is a direct quote, you can find it at http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=82 if you doubt me). If people feel "intimidated" by reading it that's their issue not mine as I wasnt pointing it at anybody in particular in the first place.
Here lets change the topic....heres another piece of NYS Law.
ARTICLE 35
Defense of justification
S 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.
1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by such other person, unless:
(a) The latter`s conduct was provoked by the actor himself with intent to cause physical injury to another person; or
(b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his use of physical force is nevertheless justifiable if he has withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical force; or
(c) The physical force involved is the product of a combat by
agreement not specifically authorized by law.
I find sub (b) and (c) interesting. (b) says "you have no "right" to start a fight but if you do start the fight and at some point say "stop I give" and the other guy keeps on coming, you now have the "right" to use force to defend yourself".
(c) says "if you have a mutual fight youre bolth in trouble".
Here lets change the topic....heres another piece of NYS Law.
ARTICLE 35
Defense of justification
S 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.
1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by such other person, unless:
(a) The latter`s conduct was provoked by the actor himself with intent to cause physical injury to another person; or
(b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his use of physical force is nevertheless justifiable if he has withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical force; or
(c) The physical force involved is the product of a combat by
agreement not specifically authorized by law.
I find sub (b) and (c) interesting. (b) says "you have no "right" to start a fight but if you do start the fight and at some point say "stop I give" and the other guy keeps on coming, you now have the "right" to use force to defend yourself".
(c) says "if you have a mutual fight youre bolth in trouble".
