Put it on the table

[Kong Soo Do]

A plethora of threads...and I mean a plethora all center around some central issues. Perhaps it's time to consolidate into one thread. At least give an area to express ones viewpoint(s) on several 'popular' topics. I've seen the viewpoints differ dramatically on these topics and perhaps some of it can be attributed to a difference in definition.

1. What do you consider a Black Belt?
2. Is this the same as the view of your organization (if you belong to one) or is it your own?
3. What is the minimum age that you would promote someone to (full) black belt?
4. Why did you pick this age?
5. Is this the same as your organization (if you belong to one)?
6. How many years of training to reach the level where one could test for Black Belt (and how often is the training)?
7. What level is considered 'master' status?
8. How long 'normally' to reach this level in total training time?

Lets make this thread where there are no wrong answers. A friendly thread where we can fully examine the viewpoint and experience of our fellow members to better understand them. I'm sure there will be disagreement, but if professionally conducted we may gain insight into others viewpoints we had not previously considered.

 

[Earl Weiss]

1. What do you consider a Black Belt?
2. Is this the same as the view of your organization (if you belong to one) or is it your own?
3. What is the minimum age that you would promote someone to (full) black belt?
4. Why did you pick this age?
5. Is this the same as your organization (if you belong to one)?
6. How many years of training to reach the level where one could test for Black Belt (and how often is the training)?
7. What level is considered 'master' status?
8. How long 'normally' to reach this level in total training time?

.

1&2 Someone who has reached phyisical and knowledge competency levels for the curriculum laid down by the organization.
3. & 4. I do not start kids before age 6. They will take a minimum of 6 years to reach Blcak Belt. Thjis would put the minimum possible age at 12 but I think the youngest in my school has been 14. I don't take them younger than 6 because they generaly cannot operate in a class environment before that age.
5. Organization does not stipulate an age.
6. Adults training regularly could reach 1st Dan in 3 years.
7. & 8 . Master means you have completed the system syllabus. This is 7th dan. In the USA it seems to average about 30 years. For some it may be a little less.

 

[Cyriacus]

A plethora of threads...and I mean a plethora all center around some central issues. Perhaps it's time to consolidate into one thread. At least give an area to express ones viewpoint(s) on several 'popular' topics. I've seen the viewpoints differ dramatically on these topics and perhaps some of it can be attributed to a difference in definition.

1. What do you consider a Black Belt?
2. Is this the same as the view of your organization (if you belong to one) or is it your own?
3. What is the minimum age that you would promote someone to (full) black belt?
4. Why did you pick this age?
5. Is this the same as your organization (if you belong to one)?
6. How many years of training to reach the level where one could test for Black Belt (and how often is the training)?
7. What level is considered 'master' status?
8. How long 'normally' to reach this level in total training time?

Lets make this thread where there are no wrong answers. A friendly thread where we can fully examine the viewpoint and experience of our fellow members to better understand them. I'm sure there will be disagreement, but if professionally conducted we may gain insight into others viewpoints we had not previously considered.

1: Whatever the Organisation deems them to be. It should amount to something though.
2: N/A.
3: 15. Well, 16. But ive seen 15 Year Olds who look and act well over their age, so Id be inclined to be lenient.
4: ^
5: Yes, except for the 15 part.
6: 2-4. If You have prior MA Experience, 1. But thats never happened, its just possible. You can Train 5 Days a Week if You want.
7: There is no such status, as there can always be either someone better, or your own improvement, and even if You were the best, You may well Train someone better.
8: N/A.

 

[msmitht]

A plethora of threads...and I mean a plethora all center around some central issues. Perhaps it's time to consolidate into one thread. At least give an area to express ones viewpoint(s) on several 'popular' topics. I've seen the viewpoints differ dramatically on these topics and perhaps some of it can be attributed to a difference in definition.

1. What do you consider a Black Belt?
2. Is this the same as the view of your organization (if you belong to one) or is it your own?
3. What is the minimum age that you would promote someone to (full) black belt?
4. Why did you pick this age?
5. Is this the same as your organization (if you belong to one)?
6. How many years of training to reach the level where one could test for Black Belt (and how often is the training)?
7. What level is considered 'master' status?
8. How long 'normally' to reach this level in total training time?

Lets make this thread where there are no wrong answers. A friendly thread where we can fully examine the viewpoint and experience of our fellow members to better understand them. I'm sure there will be disagreement, but if professionally conducted we may gain insight into others viewpoints we had not previously considered.

1. A black belt at my school has learned all of the basic curricula for TKD in addition to self defense incorporated from my training in judo and bjj.
To be more specific:
Taeguek 1-8 + all basic kicks, blocks, strikes and stances. Sparring rules (usat/wtf) and offense/defense/combo's for sparring. Sparring at a competent level. Self defense against many different grabs, punches and kicks. Proper break falls, rolling and judo throws (4 directional). Basic knife defense. Basic ground defense (not grappling-how to get up and away). The REAL history of TKD(1955 and on). Basic terminology (in Korean). Board breaking....etc.
2.Basically what the KKW requires but with practical self defense instead of one step (LOL) techniques.
3.15 is the Kukkiwon age for Dan level
4. Kukkiwon rules
5. Kukkiwon rules
6. For children to reach Poom it usually takes 3-4 years training 2x per week. I do not use Black belt program "Gimmicks" nor do I guarantee anything to anyone other than good, hard training. I have had a few get to poom in just under 3 years but they were gifted athletes who trained with more frequency. Adults usually take about 3 years attending 3x per week.
7. I was taught that a master was a 4th dan or higher who has successfully trained at least one person from white belt to poom/dan. That being said, you have to be a 4th Dan to pass the Kukkiwon F.I.C. and receive your class C license. You also have to be at least a 4th Dan to order KKW certs for your students.
8. That varies from student to student. If they train regularly with no breaks then, for a skilled adult, 9-13 years (9 would be minimum time but realistically its closer to 15).
3 years to 1st Dan, 1-2 for 2nd, 2-3 for 3rd and 3-5 for 4th. it took me 20 years but I started when I was 6.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

A plethora of threads...and I mean a plethora all center around some central issues. Perhaps it's time to consolidate into one thread. At least give an area to express ones viewpoint(s) on several 'popular' topics. I've seen the viewpoints differ dramatically on these topics and perhaps some of it can be attributed to a difference in definition.

1. What do you consider a Black Belt?
2. Is this the same as the view of your organization (if you belong to one) or is it your own?
3. What is the minimum age that you would promote someone to (full) black belt?
4. Why did you pick this age?
5. Is this the same as your organization (if you belong to one)?
6. How many years of training to reach the level where one could test for Black Belt (and how often is the training)?
7. What level is considered 'master' status?
8. How long 'normally' to reach this level in total training time?

Lets make this thread where there are no wrong answers. A friendly thread where we can fully examine the viewpoint and experience of our fellow members to better understand them. I'm sure there will be disagreement, but if professionally conducted we may gain insight into others viewpoints we had not previously considered.

1. I consider a black belt to be someone profficient in most of the curriculum for an art. They have also begun to understand when to use each of those moves and variations and adaptations of the moves to actually use them in sparring/fighting. Although there's limited ways to test if a student can really 'fight' if they ever needed to, I believe that if the need arose a black belt will successfully defend themself "in a real fight". There will still be many people who would beat them, they are not perfect by a long shot, but if push comes to shove against regular joe in the street, pub, wherever, they will either win or give a bloody good account of themself.The bottom line is "they are a black belt in a martial art, they train how to fight, its what they do". Thats the jist of it for me, I could analyze it forever, but thats the basics.
2.My view would probably differ slightly from my org's, they think along the same lines that I do and are probably about 80-90% of what I believe.
3.18 years
4. I think a black belt is an adult thing. Some things are for kids and some are for adults. Kids dont go to uni and adults dont go to primary school and the only way to put them all in the same boat is to lower requirements to make it achievable. Adults have superior co ordination, strength, speed, and just understand things on a deeper level than children.
5. No, we have kid blackbelts. It is not easy to get one, and they wont get one in under 4 years minimum and will have to show they work hard at tkd both in and out of the dojang. I dont agree with it, but I dont run the club.
6.at our club it is about 4 years to 1st dan, 2 years after that 2nd dan, 3 years after that 3rd dan etc. A fourth dan at our club has trained a minimum of 13 years.
7. 6th dan
8. 24 years of training. Our instructors hate hearing people say "I have to wait 4 years to get my 4th dan from third dan", they always say "No, you must TRAIN for four years".

 

[miguksaram]

1. What do you consider a Black Belt?
2. Is this the same as the view of your organization (if you belong to one) or is it your own?
3. What is the minimum age that you would promote someone to (full) black belt?
4. Why did you pick this age?
5. Is this the same as your organization (if you belong to one)?
6. How many years of training to reach the level where one could test for Black Belt (and how often is the training)?
7. What level is considered 'master' status?
8. How long 'normally' to reach this level in total training time?

1) A black belt is someone who has learned our basic curriculum. They can execute the techniques in a precise manner as well as display an understanding of the functionality and reason behind the technique. They can display a good understanding of our self defense sets (Ippons, Taezus, Circular Self Defense, and basic locks) as well a perform our forms and their bunkai along with weapon sets.

2) I belong to the American Karate Organization, which is open to all systems and does not govern a set curriculum for schools. The standards mentioned in above are standards that are aligned with our school that I attend and my own personal standard as well.

3) 16 is the minimum age we promote anyone to an adult black belt. There is a slim chance that 15 year old can be promoted if they are turning 16 within a month or two of the test. We only hold a black belt test once a year and ONLY if there are any candidates for promotion. Else we do give out Jr. Black Belts, with the minimum age being 10 years old.

4) We base the age of 16 out of tradition. I believe that was the minimum age that they issued adult dan certificates back in the days. As for our Jr. BB, that is actually very new to us. We started formally testing for Jr. BB's only 5 years ago. Before that you were just a brown belt and then Sensei would give you a Jr. BB to distinguish you as an instructor within the kid classes.

5) Again, our organization does not dictate school standards.

6) There is no set time, but on average I would say 2-3 hours a week for about 5 years would be about right to reach a black belt in our school. The record was 1 year but the person had several years of prior knowledge and moved by our school to learn how to teach so he spent close to 56+ hours a week at the school.

7) Don't know. We don't use the term at our school. As a black belt you are called Sensei. My instructor Sensei Sharkey, has been in the arts for over 40 years. He is an 8th dan in our system and a 5th dan in Shotokan, not to mention he was a very close friend of the Late Guru Presas so whenever Presas was in town he would stay at Sensei's place and they would play with the sticks. Sensei is very efficient with Arnis though he holds no formal rank, nor does he claim any.

8) I'll let you know when I can finally say I have mastered at least on technique....so far 31 years and counting.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

1. What do you consider a Black Belt?
2. Is this the same as the view of your organization (if you belong to one) or is it your own?
3. What is the minimum age that you would promote someone to (full) black belt?
4. Why did you pick this age?
5. Is this the same as your organization (if you belong to one)?
6. How many years of training to reach the level where one could test for Black Belt (and how often is the training)?
7. What level is considered 'master' status?
8. How long 'normally' to reach this level in total training time?

1. A person who can demonstrate an acceptable level of proficency in the principles and techniques of a system. Speaking only for myself and my art, my criteria is whether or not I would want them as back up in a real world altercation. This is of course from a SD perspective which is what my art has as its sole focus.

2. The first part is the mantra of the IKSDA. The second part is my own criteria.

3. 15, if it is a dedicated and mature 15.

4. At this age a young adult is capable, with supervision, of operating a motor vehicle. Thus this is the age where more responsibility can be placed upon them as they grow into adulthood. Of course, this can also easily be a case-by-case basis.

5. I believe that it is the same.

6. Case-by-case basis. Suggested of 5xweek.

7. 4th Dan.

8. Case-by-case basis. As a rough estimate only, probably around 10+ years.

 

[sfs982000]

A plethora of threads...and I mean a plethora all center around some central issues. Perhaps it's time to consolidate into one thread. At least give an area to express ones viewpoint(s) on several 'popular' topics. I've seen the viewpoints differ dramatically on these topics and perhaps some of it can be attributed to a difference in definition.

1. What do you consider a Black Belt?
2. Is this the same as the view of your organization (if you belong to one) or is it your own?
3. What is the minimum age that you would promote someone to (full) black belt?
4. Why did you pick this age?
5. Is this the same as your organization (if you belong to one)?
6. How many years of training to reach the level where one could test for Black Belt (and how often is the training)?
7. What level is considered 'master' status?
8. How long 'normally' to reach this level in total training time?

Lets make this thread where there are no wrong answers. A friendly thread where we can fully examine the viewpoint and experience of our fellow members to better understand them. I'm sure there will be disagreement, but if professionally conducted we may gain insight into others viewpoints we had not previously considered.

1. I consider a black belt, depending on the Dan rank, as someone who is has learned the basic curiculum of their system and can perform those techniques with proficiency.
2. I belong to the ATA so depending on who you talk to some schools don't necessarily feel that way.
3. Personally I don't feel that anyone under the age of 16 should be a full blown black belt, if it were up to me anyone under the age of 16 could be awarded a Jr. black belt and that would only be for 1st Dan. They would have to stay at that grade until they reached 16.
4. I guess I picked that age because by that age they should have some level of maturity that I would like to see in a black belt (then again there are some 18 year olds that exhibit the maturity that I would like to see as well)
5. No the ATA as it's been well documented doesn't have an age limit as to who they promote to black belt they promoted based on the individual performing the material for thier current grade.
6. I think that 5 years training (3-4 days a week) is a reasonable amount of time for a person to make 1st Dan, of course it also comes down to the individual some could make it earlier and others it might take longer.
7. I believe the ATA considers 6th Dan and up "master" status, which I have no problem with, personnally I wouldn't have any heartburn with 5th Dans being considered master.
8. Personally I think 25-30 years to master status isn't unreasonable, but again it would depend on the individual.

 

[Twin Fist]

What do you consider a Black Belt?
someone that has learned the required techniques and can perform them with power, balance, focus, skill and spirit.

Is this the same as the view of your organization (if you belong to one) or is it your own?
thats mine
What is the minimum age that you would promote someone to (full) black belt?
16
Why did you pick this age?
18 was too much to ask for
Is this the same as your organization (if you belong to one)?
no, my instructor doesnt use Jr belts, and i hate it
How many years of training to reach the level where one could test for Black Belt (and how often is the training)?
by the book the earliest is 4 years

What level is considered 'master' status?
5th Dan
How long 'normally' to reach this level in total training time?
4 years to 1st, +2 for second +3 for third +4 for fourth +5 for fith

18 years bare minimum