Poverty ranks swell by over a million

[Makalakumu]

upnorth, are you talking about our conversation? That was interesting, I enjoyed it.

Yes, in fact, I was. I've done a little more reading since then and I am about ready to dig up that thread...

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Robertson:

Just out of curiosity, what the hell is the bucket joke? I've just never heard that phrase before.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Freud to neighbor:

"Can I have the bucket back that I loaned you?"

Neighbor:

"I never borrowed your bucket; I gave it back last week; and anyway, it had a hole in it when you loaned it to me."

 

[MA-Caver]

Well getting back to the original topic... IMO most of these poverty strickened people are there because they want to be there. Many are living on welfare and what-ever non-earned income they have going for them.
Many are not educated enough to get employment suitable enough to lift them above the poverty line or they do not have the necessary skills to obtain said employment that they need.
As one who used to live at or below poverty levels on more than one occasion... I'm working full time right now and am basically calling myself living rather than surviving... I'm just one step above poverty and hope to stay there long enough to get to the next step. It's called a JOB... you know J-O-B? Just Over Broke?... anyway I've seen enough examples of these variables in the poverty section of our society to know who are sincere in wanting to get out and raise standards of living but are struggling and some mightily at that, and others who are just plain LAZY and don't want to. And yes there are those who are just incapable by some circumstances or another.

Jesus said: "The poor will be with you always..." It is up to us to help out the best that we can. Even giving a person a job that pays decent enough for one or two nights a week (if that's all they or you can do) is a BIG help ... better than none at all.
We cannot and should not say it's just the government's problem just because we pay the taxes that are supposed to help these people... that want to be helped. There are many little things that we can do to make their lives a little bit better.
I try to do my part for new employees where I work, who are just starting again from scratch by understanding how broke they are after being unemployed for a while and now having to wait two weeks before their first check and loan them a few bucks... ($5.00 or even $10) just so they can get a dollar burger for lunch every day if that's what they need. It's damn hard, and I've been there and so I try to help out because it helps pass on the message that yeah, there are folks who give a damn.
Like many of us here on MT
:asian:

 

[MisterMike]

Yea, I've seen the poverty stricken of Dorchester or Boston. With their 150 dollar nike's.

I see no motivating factors for them to improve, especially if we're giving out hard cash instead of food stamps.

Real poverty is when you are starving. There is not 34 million starving in this country.

You'll know poverty when you are truely hungry.

I made 19k after college. 1k above the poverty line. I was still quite happy then because there is more to life than money.

 

[Makalakumu]

Yea, I've seen the poverty stricken of Dorchester or Boston. With their 150 dollar nike's.

I see no motivating factors for them to improve, especially if we're giving out hard cash instead of food stamps.

Real poverty is when you are starving. There is not 34 million starving in this country.

You'll know poverty when you are truely hungry.

I made 19k after college. 1k above the poverty line. I was still quite happy then because there is more to life than money.

Mike, with all due respect, people with 150 dollar nikes are not in "poverty" and never were. They weren't "given" money by the government to buy what they have, the families worked and scrimped and saved. The reality of wellfare is far different then what the Right envisions.

As far as the starving people in this country goes... My school provides three meals a day for EVERY kid who walks through the door. I have lived in places in this country were EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING was starving (Pine Ridge Reservation). I, myself, as a child, starved. If you count up all of the people in the city or in Rural USA who are going hungry, the number is going to be GREATER then 34 million.

This is one of those things that you only see when you have lived it, otherwise you are taught to ignore it. People always talk about how the government gives you everything when you are poor. Well, I grew up about as poor as one can get and I didn't get much. What I got, I recieved from scrapping metal and hunting and shoveling snow...ect. That is not what I would call lazy...

Poverty exists in this country and some of it is far worse then anything you will find in the third world. We should expect more from a superpower.

upnorthkyosa

 

[MisterMike]

Mike, with all due respect, people with 150 dollar nikes are not in "poverty" and never were. They weren't "given" money by the government to buy what they have, the families worked and scrimped and saved. The reality of wellfare is far different then what the Right envisions.

Well, according to the article, they are in poverty. They make less than $18k and are now in that group. I would tend to disagree on what they were given. Just a gut call here, but nearly HALF the people I have EVER met that received government assistance was either doing so fraudulently or WAS receiving enough for the 150 dollar nikes.

My definition of poverty is you have NOTHING with no promises of what will come tomorrow. No nikes, no X-boxes, no 2nd or third TV's. Nothing. And I do know we have legitimate poor folk here, but not 34 million of them. Also, comparing now to the 1920's, we've come a long way. Comparing 2000 to 2004 - I don't see the comparison.

As far as the starving people in this country goes... My school provides three meals a day for EVERY kid who walks through the door. I have lived in places in this country were EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING was starving (Pine Ridge Reservation). I, myself, as a child, starved. If you count up all of the people in the city or in Rural USA who are going hungry, the number is going to be GREATER then 34 million.

I'm still waiting for the news to start playing the stories on all the dead and dying who starve to death each day here. I don't want to come off as a jerk, but it just aint gettin' played. Well, not 34 million times. 1 time is enough to make most take a step back and be thankful for what they have. But we still live in the greatest country ever, IMO. Room to grow, of course. I'm just a little tired of the spin and fuzzy math.

 

[rmcrobertson]

See what I mean?

1. These people aren't poor.

2. This country offers the millions of poor people all the opportunity anyone needs,

3. And anyway, it's their own damn fault.

Among the things I adore about capitalism are these three things:

a) The way ideology works like the old country-western song, "Darlin' who you gonna believe? Me or your own lyin' eyes;"

b) The perpetuation of fake images of the poor, not only to cover up their human identity but to both reassure and threaten those who have, "made it;"

c) The promulgation of a total contradiction between surface religious principles (me, I recollect Jesus insisting on...well, you know) and deep thoughts (ah, screw 'em).

It's bad enough we don't do anything. At least let's not lie to ourselves, eh?

 

[MisterMike]

See what I mean?

1. These people aren't poor.

2. This country offers the millions of poor people all the opportunity anyone needs,

3. And anyway, it's their own damn fault.

...

snipped the extraneous anti-capitalism stuff...

No, I don't see what you mean. Can you point out where that's coming from, or if it's from a large enough base to matter?

I know, it's the Michael Savages of the world and Rush Limbaugh....

 

[Makalakumu]

I'm still waiting for the news to start playing the stories on all the dead and dying who starve to death each day here. I don't want to come off as a jerk, but it just aint gettin' played. Well, not 34 million times. 1 time is enough to make most take a step back and be thankful for what they have. But we still live in the greatest country ever, IMO. Room to grow, of course. I'm just a little tired of the spin and fuzzy math.

Mike, my father worked on Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in SD. I lived with him for a short time during my tumultuous young life. In the middle of winter, we are talking about 40 mile an hour winds and minus 0 temps, children were living in cardboard boxes. You won't see this on the news though...its not chic and it doesn't make Americans feel to good about their country.

Seeing is believe, Mike, that is all I've got to say. :asian:

upnorthkyosa

 

[rmcrobertson]

1. Yea, I've seen the poverty stricken of Dorchester or Boston. With their 150 dollar nike's.

2. But we still live in the greatest country ever, IMO. Room to grow, of course.

3. IMO most of these poverty strickened people are there because they want to be there.

I'm sorry. Did I go and read what was written again?

 

[MisterMike]

Mike, my father worked on Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in SD. I lived with him for a short time during my tumultuous young life. In the middle of winter, we are talking about 40 mile an hour winds and minus 0 temps, children were living in cardboard boxes. You won't see this on the news though...its not chic and it doesn't make Americans feel to good about their country.

Seeing is believe, Mike, that is all I've got to say. :asian:

upnorthkyosa

Indian Reservations are probably a unique case. Sad thing is, they are a group that I feel for, as we are the ones who put them there.

Slavery is the next ugliest thing, and since 50% of the poverty numbers were black, I think you can see why.

I'm not denying the existance of what you saw. I just have an issue on the number of truely poor in that "news" article.

 

[MisterMike]

1. Yea, I've seen the poverty stricken of Dorchester or Boston. With their 150 dollar nike's.

2. But we still live in the greatest country ever, IMO. Room to grow, of course.

3. IMO most of these poverty strickened people are there because they want to be there.

I'm sorry. Did I go and read what was written again?

You wrote:
1. These people aren't poor.

2. This country offers the millions of poor people all the opportunity anyone needs,

I think you are a little too general then - the quotes just don't line up.

#1, I HAVE seen this.
#2, you didn't really make any reasonable correlation.

 

[Tgace]

I lived the first 20yrs of my life near a NE reservation. Some are now making a fortune selling gas, cigarettes, gambling etc.....strange thing is none of that $$ seems to go to building schools, medical centers, housing etc.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Oh dear.

1. See, if you have 150 dollar Nikes, you cannot truly be poor, because as your post elsewhere went on to claim, poverty means you don't have anything at all.

2. See, if we live in the greatest country ever, with, room to grow, then anybody can succeed and any failure can only be theirs.

3. See, if people are poor, "because they want to," be, then it's all their fault.

That is, they aren't poor, America offers them opportunity not to be poor, and anyway being poor is your own damn fault anyway.

Man, go read Cornel West's old, "Race Matters," willya?

Incidentally, estimates are that there are something on the order of 40,000 slaves in this country at the present time. Minimum. And we are 23rd on the list of infant mortality stats, and dropping.

 

[MisterMike]

Oh dear.

1. See, if you have 150 dollar Nikes, you cannot truly be poor, because as your post elsewhere went on to claim, poverty means you don't have anything at all.

2. See, if we live in the greatest country ever, with, room to grow, then anybody can succeed and any failure can only be theirs.

3. See, if people are poor, "because they want to," be, then it's all their fault.

That is, they aren't poor, America offers them opportunity not to be poor, and anyway being poor is your own damn fault anyway.

Man, go read Cornel West's old, "Race Matters," willya?

Incidentally, estimates are that there are something on the order of 40,000 slaves in this country at the present time. Minimum. And we are 23rd on the list of infant mortality stats, and dropping.

1. Nope. Because if you really felt you were going to be hungry or die, with nobody to back you up, you do not have the mentality of a poor person.

2. Again, this is illogical.

3. In my own defense here, someone else posted that.

Kudos to you and the other left thinkers though. If there's one thing you can do is steer a discussion away from the original subject.

For yours and other's sake, I'll repeat that there are not 34 million poor, starving, unsheltered people in this country. Some of our "poor" live better than others in this world.

Read in and twist away....

 

[rmcrobertson]

So in other words, those 34 million poor don't exist because they're not really poor. OK, fine.

By the way, those 1 million plus kids who go to bed hungry every night? The several million abused kids? The five million plus kids without health insurance? They don't exist either.

 

[MisterMike]

So in other words, those 34 million poor don't exist because they're not really poor. OK, fine.

By the way, those 1 million plus kids who go to bed hungry every night?

Hmmm...so it is 1 Mil and not 34?

I'm confused. Poor, but not hungry. How DO we categorize ther remaining 33 Million. Wait, did this article come out 60-some-odd days before an election?

Gosh darn it, I think I got it now.

 

[Makalakumu]

Poverty is defined as a four person family living on or under $19,500 dollars a year. The census shows that there are 34,000,000 million people in this country that fit that definition. I think we need to toss out the emotionally charged word "poor" and take a look at the definition presented in the article. I hope this clarifies things.

 

[rmcrobertson]

No, Michael, I was pointing out that again, people handle these issues most commonly by explaining them away. Or, they attempt to deflect the facts away.

How they reconcile these sorts of realities with their hallucinations about America and their religious principles, I have no idea. Well, I mean to say that I understand how they do it, I've just never quite been able to understand how they allow themselves to get away with it.

But that aside, the facts seem to be that during Bush's Presidency, the number of people classified as, "poor," has grown by over a million. That's a lot of people, however you slice it.