Patience Vs. Efficiency

[Danny T]

Now your suggesting that emotions are weakness? Lol. Okay. I think you're a little off the rails. For what it's worth, your opinion is not uncommon among young, white dudes who want to feel better about saying things they know they probably shouldn't. At least, that's been my experience.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

No, but allowing your emotions to control your thoughts and words is.
Might be nice to be young again; white I ain't but was brought up in a Irish Gaelic & Cajun French family though.

 

[drop bear]

Is there a triple facepalm meme, by any chance?

There are facepalm memes for all occasions.

 

[drop bear]

If you don't allow the words to offend there is no victim.

As the pope said.
"It is true that you must not react violently, but... if [somebody] says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch"

No really that an actual quote.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Is there a triple facepalm meme, by any chance?

Be sure to look in the mirror while doing that.

 

[Danny T]

As the pope said.
"It is true that you must not react violently, but... if [somebody] says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch"

No really that an actual quote.

I believe he stated that about the recent attacks on the offices of French magazine Charlie Hebdo . That while true one should not react violently if you say things that others are offended by be expecting a retaliation. He used himself and his mother as an example. I don't believe he was condoning violence by what someone said or wrote. Just that if you do say or write things that others feel offended by they should not react violently but don't be surprised or shocked when they are violent.

 

[Tez3]

Holocaust Memorial Day today and I'm off to services so I'll leave you to it. The Shoah was something truly offensive in a way that cannot be expressed, a Captain Picard facepalm not so much.

 

[Tgace]

How old are you Photon?

 

[PhotonGuy]

You are saying your viewpoint has changed, but reading your posts and comparing them to your others, it's not that clear how, and it is really not clear whether you have actually understood the views of others. That I think might be why some frustration has become evident in your threads.

I think in order to minimise that frustration, you might need to try the following:

Stop using metaphor / allegory / comparisons with 'vs' to describe things. The examples you choose are often only valid from your perspective and only muddy the waters in terms of communication. For example, martial arts is not a race to be run, nor is learning a physical skill the same as academic learning, nor are patience and efficiency comparable.

Restate the points made by others to demonstrate that you understand. When people feel misunderstood or ignored they get frustrated.

If your views have changed and you want to state that, then try stating what you thought (directly), what you think now (directly) and what made you change your mind (directly).

Patience is a virtue and a gift to be granted to those who deserve it. If you want people to be patient with you, you have to go some way towards proving that their patience will not be wasted - posting what people perceive to be repeated incorrect points (regardless of their actual validity or otherwise) will quickly exhaust patience you may originally have been afforded.

Gnarlie I would like to point some stuff out. You said in your post that patience and efficiency aren't comparable. That's exactly what I said in my very first post in this thread, that they aren't comparable except for the fact that being impatient can be inefficient. And if I keep repeating myself its because some people just don't catch on, and I find that frustrating.

And about patience being a gift granted to those who deserve it. A gift is not given to people who deserve them, you don't earn gifts, they're given freely. If something is given to someone because they earned it than its not a gift. Its a reward but not a gift.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Gnarlie I would like to point some stuff out. You said in your post that patience and efficiency aren't comparable. That's exactly what I said in my very first post in this thread, that they aren't comparable except for the fact that being impatient can be inefficient. And if I keep repeating myself its because some people just don't catch on, and I find that frustrating.

Something you really ought to consider is that in many cases, when it seems like you're standing against the whole world, the reason isn't because the whole world is wrong, but that you are.

 

[drop bear]

Something you really ought to consider is that in many cases, when it seems like you're standing against the whole world, the reason isn't because the whole world is wrong, but that you are.

group think.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Something you really ought to consider is that in many cases, when it seems like you're standing against the whole world, the reason isn't because the whole world is wrong, but that you are.

It never seems to me like Im standing against the whole world, I might be standing against certain people in the world but not the whole world.

 

[Gnarlie]

Gnarlie I would like to point some stuff out. You said in your post that patience and efficiency aren't comparable. That's exactly what I said in my very first post in this thread, that they aren't comparable except for the fact that being impatient can be inefficient. And if I keep repeating myself its because some people just don't catch on, and I find that frustrating.

I understand that, but I think others might not have at the time of your original post. The concepts you bring up in these threads are already pretty clear to most people here, so it's almost like you're going through a really slow analytical process that other people don't need to go through because the truth is already obvious to them. Not only that, you argue your position with people who give you their input, when it is clear to most people that the original premise of the thread is flawed. At which point they become frustrated.

The OP was also so similar to your other threads which had already been done to death that people got a little exasperated. I think perhaps starting a new thread may have contributed to this. If you changed your view, why not post that as an addendum to the original thread in the context where it perhaps more belonged?

And about patience being a gift granted to those who deserve it. A gift is not given to people who deserve them, you don't earn gifts, they're given freely. If something is given to someone because they earned it than its not a gift. Its a reward but not a gift.

I think you'll find that every member here initially granted you the gift of patience. But patience, like trust, is given provisionally, and when it is worn out it is gone. I am not saying you have to earn it in the first instance, it is given freely, but retaining that gift is a two way street - you have to work to retain it and not expect others to do that work for you. This means thinking, restating, considering, and perhaps moderating one's position rather than constantly defending it. You don't have to post your every thought process - just the edited highlights will do.

You're now in the rather unenviable position of trying to win people's patience back...

 

[PhotonGuy]

Yea.
It’s the old; “Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me” thing.

I am a very respectful person Steve and don’t go about purposely speaking to hurt others.

Thing is those who are offended simply by words are either wanting to be offended or their being offended is a weakness. That weakness is used often by others to shape their thoughts and actions. That weakness allows their emotions to override logical thought. It takes a strong person mentally to not allow their emotions to control their thoughts and subsequent actions.

We all have periods of weakness and emotions do takeover. Happens to us all and yes it is a point of weakness. I stand behind my statement that if one is offended by words then you are weak and Yes, I have been weak many times in my life.

In conversation it is all about context, timing, and tone.

When one allows words to offend one’s self you are showing ignorance and immaturity and in all honesty I find it a bit comical. It is seen often and causes great consternation in families, politics, religions, friendships, and all other aspects of life. If you allow words to be only that, words; conversation and discussion can be held. When one becomes offended then there is only argument or fighting.

If anyone says something and I am offended then it is me allowing those words to offend me. I also believe one of the very best ways to deal with someone attempting to offend me is to not be offended. Don’t allow them to get to you.

You know Danny I've been thinking over what you said and I believe you're right. If you let yourself get all riled up over what people say it is a weakness. Sometimes emotions take over logic and common sense and it happens to all of us from time to time. It has happened to me and it has happened to other people here. It takes practice and mental training to overcome that. Even racial slurs, which Im totally against and never make, shouldn't get a strong, confident, dignified person riled up. If somebody does make a racial slur I think its best to not lower yourself to their level. You should control your emotions not the other way around. I see that happen on these boards when people get frustrated over stuff I say but I also get like that too sometimes. As such I am teaching myself to not let it bother me so much. All too often in the real world of martial arts people are too much like Kreese and not enough like Miyagi but that's their problem. We all know what happened with Kreese, he lost all his students and his dojo went bust.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I understand that, but I think others might not have at the time of your original post. The concepts you bring up in these threads are already pretty clear to most people here, so it's almost like you're going through a really slow analytical process that other people don't need to go through because the truth is already obvious to them. Not only that, you argue your position with people who give you their input, when it is clear to most people that the original premise of the thread is flawed. At which point they become frustrated.

The OP was also so similar to your other threads which had already been done to death that people got a little exasperated. I think perhaps starting a new thread may have contributed to this. If you changed your view, why not post that as an addendum to the original thread in the context where it perhaps more belonged?

The original thread is quite old and Im not sure if its still up, I would have to search back to find it. And besides, some people think its silly to restart a thread that has been dead for a long time, so thats why I started a new thread, to show how my viewpoint has changed.

I think you'll find that every member here initially granted you the gift of patience. But patience, like trust, is given provisionally, and when it is worn out it is gone. I am not saying you have to earn it in the first instance, it is given freely, but retaining that gift is a two way street - you have to work to retain it and not expect others to do that work for you. This means thinking, restating, considering, and perhaps moderating one's position rather than constantly defending it. You don't have to post your every thought process - just the edited highlights will do.

You're now in the rather unenviable position of trying to win people's patience back...

My positions on some stuff has changed, and I've posted about that. And if somebody does have a position that's different than mine in most cases I respect that, but I like to see where they're coming from.
And I do see what you mean about trust and patience being worn out, like the boy who cried wolf, good point.

 

[drop bear]

I understand that, but I think others might not have at the time of your original post. The concepts you bring up in these threads are already pretty clear to most people here, so it's almost like you're going through a really slow analytical process that other people don't need to go through because the truth is already obvious to them. Not only that, you argue your position with people who give you their input, when it is clear to most people that the original premise of the thread is flawed. At which point they become frustrated.

The OP was also so similar to your other threads which had already been done to death that people got a little exasperated. I think perhaps starting a new thread may have contributed to this. If you changed your view, why not post that as an addendum to the original thread in the context where it perhaps more belonged?



I think you'll find that every member here initially granted you the gift of patience. But patience, like trust, is given provisionally, and when it is worn out it is gone. I am not saying you have to earn it in the first instance, it is given freely, but retaining that gift is a two way street - you have to work to retain it and not expect others to do that work for you. This means thinking, restating, considering, and perhaps moderating one's position rather than constantly defending it. You don't have to post your every thought process - just the edited highlights will do.

You're now in the rather unenviable position of trying to win people's patience back...

Yeah but friendly forum so patience is going to be necessary.

 

[Gnarlie]

Yeah but friendly forum so patience is going to be necessary.

I agree, that's why I am still posting, and trying to be constructive. As I already said, it's a two way street, and it's not fair to expect others to think on one's behalf. There should be progress from post to post...

 

[drop bear]

I agree, that's why I am still posting, and trying to be constructive. As I already said, it's a two way street, and it's not fair to expect others to think on one's behalf. There should be progress from post to post...

Yes but there is a difference between disagreeing and explaining which you are doing. And being hacked into mean girls style.

 

[Gnarlie]

Yes but there is a difference between disagreeing and explaining which you are doing. And being hacked into mean girls style.

I agree.

 

[Danny T]

You know Danny I've been thinking over what you said and I believe you're right. If you let yourself get all riled up over what people say it is a weakness. Sometimes emotions take over logic and common sense and it happens to all of us from time to time. It has happened to me and it has happened to other people here. It takes practice and mental training to overcome that. Even racial slurs, which Im totally against and never make, shouldn't get a strong, confident, dignified person riled up. If somebody does make a racial slur I think its best to not lower yourself to their level. You should control your emotions not the other way around. I see that happen on these boards when people get frustrated over stuff I say but I also get like that too sometimes. As such I am teaching myself to not let it bother me so much. All too often in the real world of martial arts people are too much like Kreese and not enough like Miyagi but that's their problem. We all know what happened with Kreese, he lost all his students and his dojo went bust.

Cool. All the best in you endeavors.

 

[Steve]

PhotonGuy and DannyT, it seems to me that you are both equating being offended with being angry. I completely disagree that one should never be offended. But I do agree that one should be able to manage their behavior and emotions when offended to handle it constructively.