What does Efficiency mean to you?

[LFJ]

Willing to fight or not, if you are unarmed and unable to escape from multiple attackers with multiple weapons/knives, you're pretty well screwed.

It's pure fantasy to believe you're going to fight all these guys off with your Wing Chun. But if that makes you feel better, go on. Fortunately, none of us will likely ever be found in such a situation. So, have fun training whatever you want.

 

[Phobius]

Willing to fight or not, if you are unarmed and unable to escape from multiple attackers with multiple weapons/knives, you're pretty well screwed.

It's pure fantasy to believe you're going to fight all these guys off with your Wing Chun. But if that makes you feel better, go on. Fortunately, none of us will likely ever be found in such a situation. So, have fun training whatever you want.

Actually you are wrong, people have survived such attacks. The key aspect here is not to win the fight, it is to survive. Using a will to fight could make your opponents realize the gravity of the situation, more often than not it is just one or two real psychopaths and the rest just wanted to be cool. Often the rest are not interested in delivering a lethal blow but rather be present in case their leader does so they themselves are not called chicken.

Again not to come out as a winner but to get stabbed in such a way that you may survive all the way to the hospital.

I think people train multiple opponent not for fighting multiple opponents but because being in odds where there is no chance of winning you have easier way to learn how to handle defeat and build/maintain your willpower to fight for your life no matter the odds. Something sadly not present in most people when convinced they are soon to be dead.

 

[LFJ]

Actually you are wrong, people have survived such attacks.

Who?

 

[PiedmontChun]

Actually you are wrong, people have survived such attacks. The key aspect here is not to win the fight, it is to survive. Using a will to fight could make your opponents realize the gravity of the situation, more often than not it is just one or two real psychopaths and the rest just wanted to be cool. Often the rest are not interested in delivering a lethal blow but rather be present in case their leader does so they themselves are not called chicken.

Again not to come out as a winner but to get stabbed in such a way that you may survive all the way to the hospital.

I think people train multiple opponent not for fighting multiple opponents but because being in odds where there is no chance of winning you have easier way to learn how to handle defeat and build/maintain your willpower to fight for your life no matter the odds. Something sadly not present in most people when convinced they are soon to be dead.

In my mind, the benefit of training fighting against multiple attackers is the application-based footwork practice. But mostly, training to fight multiple attackers just helps learn how to fight, evade, and ultimately exit a situation better, not come out on top as a winner. And I am ok with that. 'Live to fight another day' and all that, yeah?

 

[Danny T]

Willing to fight or not, if you are unarmed and unable to escape from multiple attackers with multiple weapons/knives, you're pretty well screwed.

Again you are correct.
Fortunately most will never be attacked but if one's only skill set is wc and happens to be attacked with an edged weapon and is in a situation where one can not immediately get away don't use the skill set you have because wc will not help get you to a position where you may escape. Abandon your knowledge and skills. You will probably not survive.

Worse if in a multiple person with multiple weapons again you are screwed. No need to have trained, no need to attempt to survive. Just die.

Training for an edged weapon attack and to survive is but a lesson in futility.

 

[Phobius]

Who?

Sorry, missread it somehow as you are not going to survive. Of course one is screwed in such scenario, not like someone enjoys the aspect of soon being badly wounded or in worst case not survive the night

 

[LFJ]

Train what you want and have fun. My final thoughts;

Empty hand vs knife when you can't just escape:

There are more tried and tested methods than adapting Wing Chun. And there is time for anyone to learn that if it is a concern, given the rarity of such attacks. Why limit yourself to Wing Chun just to be able to say your style can deal with everything?

Empty hand vs multiple knife attackers when you can't just escape:

Fortunately, more of a movie scenario or many people just hate you. If you survive this it will be because they decided to stop attacking and left you to die and you were only extremely lucky to survive your injuries. It will not be because you kung fu'd them all off of you.

 

[Phobius]

Noone said limit yourself to. Heck I dont even know if anyone explicitly said it had to be WC besides you. The question was whether to do nothing or to use WC. If you have nothing else it is better to do WC than doing nothing. Not the other way around, as WC does have some help towards knife fighting (And some key elements which should never be done such as giving the opponent access to inside of your arms unless you wish to bleed out)

 

[Isaiah90]

It's often stated that efficiency is a core concept, perhaps even the core concept of WC. But efficiency can mean a lot of things. On another thread, LFJ pointed out that it is not the same thing as effectiveness. All Martial Arts seek effectiveness, yet not all stress maximum efficiency. Effectiveness is "getting the job done", while efficiency is "getting the job done for the least input". But that can mean many things. It isn't just "getting the most bang for your buck" or "the highest mileage". There are many kinds of efficiency. There's the efficiency of time, the efficiency of movement, the efficiency of energy, and even the efficiency of training methods. All are, to some degree interrelated, and all are considered -- at least in my WC/VT though all are not stressed equally. In my experience, the emphasis and understanding of "efficiency" what it is and how it should be achieved varies a lot between WC/VT lineages and branches.

So what is your concept of efficiency?

Efficiency to me means accomplishing a task with the least amount of energy, time, movement, etc. while it may not be effective. For example, i'd much rather dodge an insanely powerful kick than make contact with a chop or a kick of my own and then make my attack. One of the most essential principles in Wing Chun is the economy of motion. I always want to use no more than necessary to end a fight. I could break my opponent's limbs to effectively stop a fight but then i would have less energy to defend myself if another opponent attacks. Effectiveness and efficiency go hand in hand but sometimes you have to sacrifice effectiveness for efficiency for whatever you are trying to accomplish namely survival.