Opinions on Lenny Sly's Aikido Combative concepts?

[Gerry Seymour]

I am not sure what you mean by exiting,
Entering is definitely there on a straight line, with the idea to beat the attacker to the punch sort of speak, at least on kihon level
I don't want to say that all daito ryu technique are done on a straight line and my opinion that daito ryu teaches different ways of exposure of aiki.

I've been curious about this, because NGA's entry tends to be a more direct line than Ueshiba's Aikido, on average. We move off-line in some cases, but often move specifically to intersect, to the point that some of us teach making contact at the hip or shoulder to break structure.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Good boxers will do this. Good capoeristas too. I was taught to do the same in Bujinkan Taijutsu, but since that is normally practiced with compliant partners I don't think practitioners are typically as skilled at pulling it off in a live situation.

Agreed. I've frequently seen movement like that I described when I'm demonstrating the soft push block and evasion, from boxers and MMA fighters. I seem to recall seeing similar from Muay Thai fighters, and certainly have seen it in kickboxing and similar sports. The movement that seems more common in Aikido (but certainly not unique, IMO) is the way they enter off-line (which I don't tend to do as much, at least not that way). I'm not sure how to describe what seems different about it, but I have seen some of the more slippery boxers do similar things, so it does happen outside Aikido.

 

[drop bear]

It's a particular challenge for Aikido (actually, for aiki arts), IMO, because if I know you're trying to do Aikido, I can take away many of the opportunities for "aiki" responses, leaving few of those opportunities and more opportunities for striking and Judo-style principles. So, if we want to practice aiki, we have to have a more cooperative situation more often, so I give you input (feed the right attacks) that make those techniques available. I think some branches of Aikido have taken too much focus on that pure aiki for a stand-alone art. It works well if you already have a functional base, but it doesn't allow students to form a functional base as cleanly as other arts do.

Like learning knife defence without ever learning how to handle a knife.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Like learning knife defence without ever learning how to handle a knife.

No, not in any way I can figure.

 

[Chris Li]

O'Sensei called his Aikido The Art of Peace. He taught that Aikido is meant to neutralize an attacker and not harm him or her; at least cause as little harm as possible. Further, O'Sensei taught us to always practice with a smile on our face. Is his practice intended to harm the attacker or neutralize the attacker? It's easier to hurt an attacker than to neutralize while not causing harm. Does he smile during practice?

Well...he didn't, really, "The Art of Peace" is a rather liberal interpretation of the word "Aikido" that was made by John Stevens and misrepresented as a translation of the word.

Neutralizing without harm to the attacker come from Sokaku Takeda and Daito-ryu, it wasn't originated by Morihei Ueshiba. I don't know about not smiling being a deal breaker, but many of his direct students recounted how hard it was to face the ferocious intensity of Morihei Ueshiba's countenance - and he certainly wasn't smiling all that time.

Best,

Chris

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

"The Art of Peace"

This remind me the following:

- Help someone to go to heaven.
- Help someone to end his misery life.
- I only train for self-defense. I don't train to fight.
- ...

There is no peace in fighting. To make your opponent's head to meet the ground is not much civilized than to let his face to meet your fist.

 

[Ryback]

Well the thread is a bit old by now but I joined the forum very recently and I have a lot of catching up to do...
Lenny is a student of Haruo Matsuoka Sensei and Larry Reynosa Sensei, both of whom were direct students of Steven Seagal Sensei. Contrary to what some of his students claim in order to advertise themselves as something different, Seagal never said that he has his own style, his Tenshin dojo and the ones affiliated with it are Aikikai dojos. He has his trademark approach and "style" but this doesn't constitute a different kind of ryu...
Lenny is always talking (usually shouting and cursing) about how his Aikido is "Tenshin Aikido" which is different, faster, better, more practical in a fighting situation kind of Aikido but the truth is that this is just a publicity trick, one that has worked well in his favor too...
Whether he likes it or not Tenshin dojo is a traditional Aikido Dojo so there is no difference between his days in traditional Aikido and his so called Tenshin training.
The only difference is that Seagal's approach is indeed more focused on the practical application but he is not the only teacher doing that nor is Lenny the only person on the planet or in Aikido that knows how to use it effectively in a fight.
He is sometimes right about common mistakes done in Aikido schools that diminish the effectiveness of the art but his way is not the only correct one, nor is he the only one approaching Aikido in such a manner.
Sometimes he is claiming that a specific technique is unique only in the "Tenshin style" or that no one does hand deflections the way he does, which is utterly wrong, after all he is not familiar with every Aikido Dojo in the world is he?
Many times he has tried to demonstrate the wrong way that doesn't work as opposed to his own that works... Sometimes he is right, but most times he is watering down the one that is supposed not to be effective, he is showing it making deliberate mistakes in order to prove it wrong and then goes on to demonstrate his own approach.
His Aikido is far from being unique, his whole movement his te sabaki, ashi sabaki, the use of kiri age,suri age and Uke nagaeshi deflections are all Seagal Sensei movements passed on to him by Matsuoka Sensei and Reynosa Sensei. His whole style is obviously Seagal based BUT he lacks Seagal's flow, he is using too much force and he is stiff during his randori probably because he is inflated like a body builder and it's too hard for him to move in a relaxed flowing way...
Now, with that being said, I generally like him, believe it or not, he is fun to watch and I respect him as much as I respect any Aikido person...

 

[now disabled]

Well the thread is a bit old by now but I joined the forum very recently and I have a lot of catching up to do...
Lenny is a student of Haruo Matsuoka Sensei and Larry Reynosa Sensei, both of whom were direct students of Steven Seagal Sensei. Contrary to what some of his students claim in order to advertise themselves as something different, Seagal never said that he has his own style, his Tenshin dojo and the ones affiliated with it are Aikikai dojos. He has his trademark approach and "style" but this doesn't constitute a different kind of ryu...
Lenny is always talking (usually shouting and cursing) about how his Aikido is "Tenshin Aikido" which is different, faster, better, more practical in a fighting situation kind of Aikido but the truth is that this is just a publicity trick, one that has worked well in his favor too...
Whether he likes it or not Tenshin dojo is a traditional Aikido Dojo so there is no difference between his days in traditional Aikido and his so called Tenshin training.
The only difference is that Seagal's approach is indeed more focused on the practical application but he is not the only teacher doing that nor is Lenny the only person on the planet or in Aikido that knows how to use it effectively in a fight.
He is sometimes right about common mistakes done in Aikido schools that diminish the effectiveness of the art but his way is not the only correct one, nor is he the only one approaching Aikido in such a manner.
Sometimes he is claiming that a specific technique is unique only in the "Tenshin style" or that no one does hand deflections the way he does, which is utterly wrong, after all he is not familiar with every Aikido Dojo in the world is he?
Many times he has tried to demonstrate the wrong way that doesn't work as opposed to his own that works... Sometimes he is right, but most times he is watering down the one that is supposed not to be effective, he is showing it making deliberate mistakes in order to prove it wrong and then goes on to demonstrate his own approach.
His Aikido is far from being unique, his whole movement his te sabaki, ashi sabaki, the use of kiri age,suri age and Uke nagaeshi deflections are all Seagal Sensei movements passed on to him by Matsuoka Sensei and Reynosa Sensei. His whole style is obviously Seagal based BUT he lacks Seagal's flow, he is using too much force and he is stiff during his randori probably because he is inflated like a body builder and it's too hard for him to move in a relaxed flowing way...
Now, with that being said, I generally like him, believe it or not, he is fun to watch and I respect him as much as I respect any Aikido person...

He is good to watch and I do enjoy his vids lol but like you I do have issues with how he always says how it doesn't work then goes into how it does and honestly all he his doing is actually applying the technique properly (ok he may add a few extras lol).

He doesn't have the flow that is for sure but I think that more to do with his in your face style and attitude and yes he is a big dude lol.

I actually do get a chuckle at how he does say it don't work and all that is not right with Aikido yet he still wears the Hakama etc.

There is no doubt he can apply his techs that is for sure. I think his style is more into his marketing strategy than anything.

If imo you want to see a shihan flow then look at Tissier shihan as he does flow and if you ever get the chance to attend a seminar he will even say that some of the techs he learned way back he can no longer do them that way ie the big circles as he is to old etc then he will go on to show how he can still do them and flow but it a slightly different way

 

[hoshin1600]

I prefer to watch Lenny with the sound off. the sound of fingernails running over a chalk board is much more pleasant to me.
if the volume is audible i get distracted from the voice i hear saying "just shut up! just shut up and do the technique...Just shut up!" then i realize its me yelling it.

 

[O'Malley]

I've been curious about this, because NGA's entry tends to be a more direct line than Ueshiba's Aikido, on average. We move off-line in some cases, but often move specifically to intersect, to the point that some of us teach making contact at the hip or shoulder to break structure.

According to my teacher (who trained both Daito-ryu and Iwama Aikido), OSensei was obsessed with the concept of ai-uchi (where both opponents kill each other) and thus modified Daito-ryu techniques in order to put the aikidoka in a safer position (the ideal is "I can hit him but he cannot hit me", the second best is "I can't hit him but I'm safe and in an advantageous position"). This is reflected in our stance (sankaku = bladed, triangular stance VS the squarer shikaku stance from Daito-ryu) and in our weapon work.

In fact, my teacher also practices iaï/battô-do and fights in Atarashii Naginata and he told us that ha felt that his aikido put him in safer positions and made him much less likely to get hit but that it sometimes made him miss his target by a small distance.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

According to my teacher (who trained both Daito-ryu and Iwama Aikido), OSensei was obsessed with the concept of ai-uchi (where both opponents kill each other) and thus modified Daito-ryu techniques in order to put the aikidoka in a safer position (the ideal is "I can hit him but he cannot hit me", the second best is "I can't hit him but I'm safe and in an advantageous position"). This is reflected in our stance (sankaku = bladed, triangular stance VS the squarer shikaku stance from Daito-ryu) and in our weapon work.

In fact, my teacher also practices iaï/battô-do and fights in Atarashii Naginata and he told us that ha felt that his aikido put him in safer positions and made him much less likely to get hit but that it sometimes made him miss his target by a small distance.

That makes sense. I can see how that focus would produce a different approach - and commonly different positions - than a different branch from Daito-ryu. Thanks!

 

[now disabled]

According to my teacher (who trained both Daito-ryu and Iwama Aikido), OSensei was obsessed with the concept of ai-uchi (where both opponents kill each other) and thus modified Daito-ryu techniques in order to put the aikidoka in a safer position (the ideal is "I can hit him but he cannot hit me", the second best is "I can't hit him but I'm safe and in an advantageous position"). This is reflected in our stance (sankaku = bladed, triangular stance VS the squarer shikaku stance from Daito-ryu) and in our weapon work.

In fact, my teacher also practices iaï/battô-do and fights in Atarashii Naginata and he told us that ha felt that his aikido put him in safer positions and made him much less likely to get hit but that it sometimes made him miss his target by a small distance.

The stance I agree with as it puts different pressure on the pelvic area thus making movement "easier" and the weight distribution is slightly different

Using the Bokken and the Jo does help a great deal not only with hand movement (many of the throws the hand /arm movement resembles how you would cut with the sword ) but most def with your foot movement ashi sabaki. As folks will know the first to bokken Kumitachi are almost identical to those of Kishima Shinto Ryu

I do find it surprising that he said (maybe I got this wrong) that it sometimes made him miss by a small distance, That actually really interests me as I would have thought that it would have had the opposite effect.

very interesting and a good post

 

[Finlay]

Just because you swear alot doesnt make you style more legit.

I know awesome fighters and doormen who are still polite

Take away that and what have you got, just a slightly harder style of aikido.


There is another video where they attack other styles of aikido and call them weak in the application of ikkyo.

Trouble is, they way they present 'how most schools do it' i have never seen. Seems largely a straw man argument

 

[Finlay]

My mistake... it was sankyo