Opinions on Lenny Sly's Aikido Combative concepts?

[GPaul]

I understand your point however if we put names aside ( aikido ,aikijiutsu) this guy has purposely stepped outside of the tradition, thus we cannot judge what he does by the traditional standard. That would be judging an apple on how much it looks and tastes like a banana. His videos show he has a distaste for most Ueshiba aikido and has adopted a more aggressive method. Traditionalists may think this then is not aiki and not aikido but that was not the original question from the OP as I understood it. So to judge this guy's practice we need to account for the modified intent.

I understand your point however if we put names aside ( aikido ,aikijiutsu) this guy has purposely stepped outside of the tradition, thus we cannot judge what he does by the traditional standard. That would be judging an apple on how much it looks and tastes like a banana. His videos show he has a distaste for most Ueshiba aikido and has adopted a more aggressive method. Traditionalists may think this then is not aiki and not aikido but that was not the original question from the OP as I understood it. So to judge this guy's practice we need to account for the modified intent.

If we are not allowed to judge this guy by the traditional standards of Aikido as put forth by the founder of Aikido, the corollary holds. That is, he cannot make a claim that he is practicing or teaching Aikido.

 

[drop bear]

O'Sensei called his Aikido The Art of Peace. He taught that Aikido is meant to neutralize an attacker and not harm him or her; at least cause as little harm as possible. Further, O'Sensei taught us to always practice with a smile on our face. Is his practice intended to harm the attacker or neutralize the attacker? It's easier to hurt an attacker than to neutralize while not causing harm. Does he smile during practice?

Sounds like BJJ not aikido.

Does the guy in the vid do anything reall different to any other Aikido guy? Doesnt look different to me.

 

[hoshin1600]

If we are not allowed to judge this guy by the traditional standards of Aikido as put forth by the founder of Aikido, the corollary holds. That is, he cannot make a claim that he is practicing or teaching Aikido.

You can judge him any way you see fit, I am not saying you are not allowed to. But since Lenny has purposely and vocally stated that what he is doing is different than traditional Aikido then I feel, to be fair we need to look at his techniques in that light. Do they work and match the intent for which he is trying to achieve. I think they do. Now if that intent is not in accordance with O'Sensei and you feel he shouldn't use the Aikido label then that is a different discussion in my mind. There has been a thread similar to that about the term aikijiutsu.

Edit: I still don't like the guy.

 

[hoshin1600]

Sounds like BJJ not aikido.

Does the guy in the vid do anything reall different to any other Aikido guy? Doesnt look different to me.

Yeah he kinda does. But it's a little like a Rickson Gracie school vs 10th planet. Kinda the same, kinda different and people on the outside wouldn't know the difference.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sounds like BJJ not aikido.

Does the guy in the vid do anything reall different to any other Aikido guy? Doesnt look different to me.

The “impact” to the uke is different. Less flow on some of the techniques - less of what you’ve heard me refer to as “pure aiki”. Still the same techniques and the same physical principles (including the physical “aiki”).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You can judge him any way you see fit, I am not saying you are not allowed to. But since Lenny has purposely and vocally stated that what he is doing is different than traditional Aikido then I feel, to be fair we need to look at his techniques in that light. Do they work and match the intent for which he is trying to achieve. I think they do. Now if that intent is not in accordance with O'Sensei and you feel he shouldn't use the Aikido label then that is a different discussion in my mind. There has been a thread similar to that about the term aikijiutsu.

Edit: I still don't like the guy.

Pretty good comparison. There would be one difference, in that “Aikido” is both the art Ueshiba created and the category of arts, as designated by the Dai Nippon Butokku-kai. So, in this case, it’s a correct name, even if it’s a different art (which I don’t see it as).

 

[Encho]

I actually like Lenny's approach, looks a lot better than most Aikido schools I have visited as far as actual practical application.
It may not have an Aiki approach but some people are not looking for that and just want something practical.
Lenny seems like a guy who loves Aikido and wants to showcase that Aikido as a practical martial art instead of the preconception that a lot have as being unrealistic.

I think a lot of people tend to view Aikido based on Ueshiba's teachings later in life in a romantic idealism that may not be translated accurately kinda of like that weird uncle who eats brownies and talks about how we are all are one translated by your aunt to your mom then to you.

 

[Martial D]

Maybe I'm a little biased here, but show me a video where the aikido guy is defending successfully against REALISTIC attacks, then we can have a serious discussion. Nobody will ever attack you like this guy (and every other guy in every aikido demonstration video ever) attacks.

Nothing against aikido one way or the other, but you can make literally anything look good if a guy just throws themselves at you like that.

 

[drop bear]

Maybe I'm a little biased here, but show me a video where the aikido guy is defending successfully against REALISTIC attacks, then we can have a serious discussion. Nobody will ever attack you like this guy (and every other guy in every aikido demonstration video ever) attacks.

Nothing against aikido one way or the other, but you can make literally anything look good if a guy just throws themselves at you like that.

There are Aikido comps where you will see it.

 

[Martial D]

There are Aikido comps where you will see it.

Where? I've looked, and looked, and looked.

It's all either the one guy throwing themselves at the other guy, or if actual competition its two guys tugging on each others gi sleeves.

Wheres the defense in application against actual attacks? I really do want to see that, but I haven't been able to find it. I'm sure you have several such clips queued up, do share.

 

[Encho]

Maybe I'm a little biased here, but show me a video where the aikido guy is defending successfully against REALISTIC attacks, then we can have a serious discussion. Nobody will ever attack you like this guy (and every other guy in every aikido demonstration video ever) attacks.

Nothing against aikido one way or the other, but you can make literally anything look good if a guy just throws themselves at you like that.

Hi Martial D,
You most likely won't see it as everything is a demo even what Lenny does. In my opinion Lenny looks like a guy who could most likely defend himself with his Aikido.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Where? I've looked, and looked, and looked.

It's all either the one guy throwing themselves at the other guy, or if actual competition its two guys tugging on each others gi sleeves.

Wheres the defense in application against actual attacks? I really do want to see that, but I haven't been able to find it. I'm sure you have several such clips queued up, do share.

In competition, it often looks more like Judo (because the other guy is countering everything, like Judo). On defensive application, if trained well, it looks like a bit of both, sometimes messier, and sometimes more violent.

 

[GPaul]

Yeah he kinda does. But it's a little like a Rickson Gracie school vs 10th planet. Kinda the same, kinda different and people on the outside wouldn't know the difference.

And if you watch his ikkyo, uke is able to simply step back and walk out. I've seen it done many times because people don't understand the principle. What he does can work on the street, only if the attacker is unskilled and over extended.

 

[GPaul]

There are Aikido comps where you will see it.

 

[GPaul]

Hi Martial D,
You most likely won't see it as everything is a demo even what Lenny does. In my opinion Lenny looks like a guy who could most likely defend himself with his Aikido.

Here is a video to fit your question.

 

[GPaul]

Maybe I'm a little biased here, but show me a video where the aikido guy is defending successfully against REALISTIC attacks, then we can have a serious discussion. Nobody will ever attack you like this guy (and every other guy in every aikido demonstration video ever) attacks.

Nothing against aikido one way or the other, but you can make literally anything look good if a guy just throws themselves at you like that.

Hmm, I tried adding a video for you but it ended up placed elsewhere for reasons unknown.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Staged.

 

[Encho]

Here is a video to fit your question.

Hi GPaul I actually did not ask a question but made a statement, the video looks great for a training or demo and don't doubt the guy is skilled but it is what it is a demo.
I suppose the question is why do aikidoka need to prove it works to validate the art for themselves? If a person is practicing the art and enjoys it for what it is then that really is all there is to it. Lenny seems like a no b.s. kinda of guy and passionate about his aikido so it's not everyone cup of tea especially if you are more inclined to a more pacifist direction.

 

[Martial D]

Here is a video to fit your question.

Well, the throw off the collar grab is good, I could see that being useful, as it's a situation that sometimes happens.

I'll just leave it at that I suppose.

 

[drop bear]

Where? I've looked, and looked, and looked.

It's all either the one guy throwing themselves at the other guy, or if actual competition its two guys tugging on each others gi sleeves.

Wheres the defense in application against actual attacks? I really do want to see that, but I haven't been able to find it. I'm sure you have several such clips queued up, do share.

Hey look I am the first person to rag on Aikido when it is warranted. Which is pretty much always. But they are chunking guys on their butts who dont want to get chunked. And that is working.