Opinion on school's pricing plan

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

There's only two instances where I can see someone charging without allowing for people to look in.

The first is that it's part of some military/militia group that's private and needs either some sort of clearance or vouching program to view/participate. The second is if the person isn't really looking at it as a school, just teaches friends/a specific inner circle, and really isn't looking for new students, but is open to you coming to the group classes if you pay. The first one I personally don't have a need to join but I can see how a group might want their secrecy for whatever reason. The second situation, I can see myself going to if the person comes highly recommended by a martial artist I trust, and it's clear that the reason for it is just that they don't see any reason to expand/promote for new members.

Outside of that, if I'm not able to do a trial class, or at least look in, I'm not paying.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There's only two instances where I can see someone charging without allowing for people to look in.

The first is that it's part of some military/militia group that's private and needs either some sort of clearance or vouching program to view/participate. The second is if the person isn't really looking at it as a school, just teaches friends/a specific inner circle, and really isn't looking for new students, but is open to you coming to the group classes if you pay. The first one I personally don't have a need to join but I can see how a group might want their secrecy for whatever reason. The second situation, I can see myself going to if the person comes highly recommended by a martial artist I trust, and it's clear that the reason for it is just that they don't see any reason to expand/promote for new members.

Outside of that, if I'm not able to do a trial class, or at least look in, I'm not paying.

I've seen two instances of the second situation. These guys didn't really like starting new students - they wanted to work with folks beyond that point, so they only took folks who seemed committed enough to hang around a while. So they didn't encourage folks to watch a class, and never gave free classes. The thought was that folks who would join anyway were more likely to last at least a few months. Both of them had a loophole they knew and saw as a way for folks to get a class without a commitment. Both did regular seminars, and those were open to almost anyone. They didn't suggest it, but expected prospective students to figure that out and attend a seminar to see what they do.

 

[Flying Crane]

There's only two instances where I can see someone charging without allowing for people to look in.

The first is that it's part of some military/militia group that's private and needs either some sort of clearance or vouching program to view/participate. The second is if the person isn't really looking at it as a school, just teaches friends/a specific inner circle, and really isn't looking for new students, but is open to you coming to the group classes if you pay. The first one I personally don't have a need to join but I can see how a group might want their secrecy for whatever reason. The second situation, I can see myself going to if the person comes highly recommended by a martial artist I trust, and it's clear that the reason for it is just that they don't see any reason to expand/promote for new members.

Outside of that, if I'm not able to do a trial class, or at least look in, I'm not paying.

The second scenario you describe is pretty much what my situation is with my Sifu. We train in his back yard, it is very private, he only has a handful of active students, isn’t interested in expanding, and I never would have gotten through the front door (or even known which door to knock on to begin with) if I hadn’t had an introduction by my previous Sifu, who had been his student. The only big difference is we pay one month at a time, with no obligation beyond that. But no, he does not give free classes and is not open to people wandering in to watch a class.

 

[Graywalker]

Strange indeed. Why would you pay for a product unseen?

 

[TularosaKungFu]

Old thread, but I segregate accepted students from public and public pay for a tai chi gi and can see a public class first. But that is for tai chi and children.
Accepted students are expected to pay on entry and order a sturdy uniform and shoes, which they get at cost. So it's around $100 for that first month of gong fu and $25-$35 to jump in the open tai chi group. I don't care about anything free or any blowhards trying to bluffalo some free by chipping chunks off me. They should be paying double as it is. Ours has a few more benefits laying around than most, including the dai fu program that costs $$ (.....which is not "a fun new game". Saw some hilarious misuse, but wasn't surprised)

Sorry but all this bending over to draw people (and be abused by blowhards who only say "so then what?" I say, show them a cross the room hurling throw, like it was bullshido.)
Is a begging thing of hard times and not only are they being poxxed, weirdos are kicking their as* in the street? I'm not entertainment, I'm a life skill they can move on by if they want to?

In 1975, guys boiled in doors of every kind of dojo there was and had regard for their school. These things now are nursery maid enough without further encouraging the "something for me just 'cause" and recall the actually accurate "lucky to find, lucky to be here, could have brought tea?"

Public deals? Sure. Old people tai chi and kiddo stomp-n-yell? I think of those as kind of "obligatory community" and easy to fulfill.....unlike trainers and monks, who take all care, have often supernatural expectations and bash through gear and supplies.
I like a tiger pit.....not lame brothers sad coupon day or "just roamin around, lookin for guys I can beat to hang with"

Your times are upon you. Let the morale be raised and the ramen soup budget era of "oh come on? Free sample? Cater to ya?" lay in ashes before us. Bah!

 

[ShortBridge]

I guess I'd like to hear more from the dojo about their policy.

I (and most places) allow at least an observation if not a trial class, but traditional martial arts are not a modern convenience subscription.

Personally, I don't sell training gear or uniforms or anything like that. Our monthly dues are low and I have been accused not being totally transparent about them, but that's really because my decision and perspective students should not be based on money. I obviously tell people at the point where I consider them a sincere candidate.

I vet people and encourage them to vet us and alternatives. I want to know that they have a sincere and informed interest in what we do and how we do it. I want to know why they want to train and what their expectations are so that I'm certain that we can support their objectives. We do what we do; we don't accommodate cafeteria style knowledge transfer (e.g. - I just want to learn some trapping range tricks to mix with ...)

I talk to people on the phone, answer their questions, ask my own. Sometimes I point them in the direction of alternatives based on where they live or what they say they are looking for. If after all of that, it feels like it might be a fit, I offer a money and commitment free class to them and then afterward we decide together if we're good for them and they're good for us.

But, most people want to just email and get information or "drop by", which is not possible, because we're hidden away in a basement of a commercial building in Chinatown.

Based on what you told us about said dojo, that's unusual and not reasonable. Why would anyone commit and buy stuff without more information? But, I don't assume we have the whole story and if it is a traditional style and teacher, then the bottom line is that they set the terms for becoming a student.

 

[J. Pickard]

My friend told me about an interesting experience he had at a Dojo.

He entered the establishment and asked about a particular class he was interested in attending. He was told non-paying members can't watch nor participate in the class(even the beginners) until he pays for two months in advance as well as training gear.

What are your thoughts on this? For those that run a school, do you let people attend a class or two for free? Watch a class for free? What are your tuition/pricing plans?

I'm a fan of try it before you buy it and always offer a free class (sometimes 2) and even a discounted trial period of 2 weeks. It is not a good idea to join a martial arts school without knowing how it runs first so this is a big red flag to me. It is important to know that the dojo is operated safely and offers quality instruction so the fact that you have to pay to even watch seems like the owner is not legitimate and/or has something to hide.

 

[Buka]

I'm a fan of try it before you buy it and always offer a free class (sometimes 2) and even a discounted trial period of 2 weeks. It is not a good idea to join a martial arts school without knowing how it runs first so this is a big red flag to me. It is important to know that the dojo is operated safely and offers quality instruction so the fact that you have to pay to even watch seems like the owner is not legitimate and/or has something to hide.

I agree. I used to let anyone train for a month free if they wanted. Probably not the best business practice, but it was a busy dojo and didn't seem to matter.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm a fan of try it before you buy it and always offer a free class (sometimes 2) and even a discounted trial period of 2 weeks. It is not a good idea to join a martial arts school without knowing how it runs first so this is a big red flag to me. It is important to know that the dojo is operated safely and offers quality instruction so the fact that you have to pay to even watch seems like the owner is not legitimate and/or has something to hide.

I've always offered a free class or so if someone wants to try it out, but I have doubts about most new students' ability to assess a school by that. What I can do with a brand new student in their first class is usually dramatically different from what they'll be experiencing in a couple of weeks, to say nothing of what they'll experience in a few months.

But it's the best tool I know of for this purpose, so I still offer the free class.

 

[Flying Crane]

I've always offered a free class or so if someone wants to try it out, but I have doubts about most new students' ability to assess a school by that. What I can do with a brand new student in their first class is usually dramatically different from what they'll be experiencing in a couple of weeks, to say nothing of what they'll experience in a few months.

But it's the best tool I know of for this purpose, so I still offer the free class.

I offer four free classes. I believe that a prospective student needs a fair chance to evaluate whether they connect with me as a teacher and with the approach to training that I take, as well as the system itself. That evaluation cannot be done in one or two sessions. It probably cannot be done by a true beginner in four sessions, but it is my attempt to give them a fair shake. Eventually I cannot just be doing it for charity.