A Student's Demand

[Shinzu]

sorry but i would not allow it. all or nothing.

the last thing you need is this guy kicking a$$ and telling people that you trained him. we are not boxing rings, and certainly dont want our reputation to be defaced by a shmuck.

 

[loki09789]

"If the kid is put up against one of your blackbelts, wouldn't the blackbelt have enough control to deal with this newbie? So, don't think our Newbie will be in any danger plus, Sensei is monitoring the sessions and won't let things get out of hand."

Release forms, at least the standard one that a conventional student signs, would be a layer of protection, but because your instructor is modifying and eliminating some of his curriculum if he takes on this student, then it really is null and void. As far as the BB 'handling' him, an untrained, undisciplined figher can actually be more dangerous because of the lack of restraint and patterns. He also creates a danger to himself because he will not have the technical skill to avoid overextension, overpowering and the ability to maintain balance. The teacher will be putting himself in serious liable risk.

"Now that I think more and read some of the replies, It came to me that if Sensei says "no way Jose," isn't teacher really saying that he can't teach anyone who doesn't start at point A?"

No, Sensei is saying that as an ethical/responsible instructor he will not throw out his curriculum at the whim of a student's demand. As an instructor, we establish a philosophy and goals. If this student's desired outcome and desired training approach in not in keeping with that philosophy, declining would only make the instructor - to reasonable people - seem true to his ideology.

"Seems Teach is on the hook here. If he says no, one might think that he really can't teach or doesn't have faith that his system can't absorb a challenge. If Teach says yes, don't see what anyone else has to say to him. He is THE TEACHER."

If he says yes, it might be interpretted as a decision based on money and as a comprimising of his system.

If he seriously is considering taking this student on, it would be best to set up a private lesson schedule where he isolates this guy, tells the student that he HAS to accept some basic technical training before he will be allowed to spar, reinforce the philosophical and character goals of the school and ask the student if he really thinks that this is the right place for him. This would keep this guy out of the eye of the rest of the students and reduce the 'preferencial/greed inspired decision' rumors. Plus the higher cost of private lessons might discourage the student's pushing.

If the guy agrees, GET IT IN RIGHTING! Then rotate some black/brown belt students as sparring partners in these private lessons to model the quality product of a student of the total package vs. this guy. Maybe, through constant comparison, the guy would come around and realize that he is missing out on aspects/understanding of what martial arts could be about.

 

[tshadowchaser]

MY school My rules.
If the gentelman wants to only fight he has the option of going to the YMCA or the street, or a boxing gym.
If he insists on not haveing rules someone will get hurt nomatter where he goes.
A closed door session may be what he needs but have him sign that legal paper and then ask for his health insurence card( he has to have one to pay for any unexpected injury he might incure0 then his insurence company that carries his death benifits and whom to notify in case of accidental death. Remember he said no rule and tell him you intend to go by that. If he gives you all this then politly tell he you will contact him when you have the time for such nonsence. :uhyeah:
I have had a couple people say they just wanted to fight I made them go through our work out first. Had to make sure they where in shape. They also had to bring a doctors note saying they where in good health. They didnt make it through the excercises .

 

[oldnewbie]

I'm not an insructor, but here's my opinion....

Original question stated "newbie"...

So I'm assuming no previous training or knowledge.
Therefore, answer is no.

IF the student is only new to this style, but has knowledge is MA, then it's possible that this could work. Always nice to spar with different styles, etc.

 

[Black Bear]

MY school My rules.

Of course it's up to you. That's why this question is here in the first place. It's the instructor's call.

"If the gentelman wants to only fight he has the option of going to the YMCA or the street, or a boxing gym."
Indeed. But he happened to ask you on this given day. All we're saying is how would each of us respond. I don't know why it is that some people on this thread seem to take it as an affront.

If he insists on not haveing rules someone will get hurt nomatter where he goes.
Indeed. But no one said there would be no rules. What are you getting at?

"A closed door session may be what he needs but have him sign that legal paper and then ask for his health insurence card( he has to have one to pay for any unexpected injury he might incure0 then his insurence company that carries his death benifits and whom to notify in case of accidental death. Remember he said no rule and tell him you intend to go by that."
Remember? Actually I don't. Did he really say that? If so I missed it.

"If he gives you all this then politly tell he you will contact him when you have the time for such nonsence. :uhyeah: "
Oh please.

I wouldn't do it, for the reasons I outlined earlier, but I don't see why people have to feel as though if they just say "sorry we're not prepared to do that for you, it's a package deal" and explain why, they're losing face or something. Or that the request itself is... somehow... offensive I guess. I feel as though some of the people on this thread are annoyed or offended that a person would even ask that.

 

[loki09789]

I wouldn't do it, for the reasons I outlined earlier, but I don't see why people have to feel as though if they just say "sorry we're not prepared to do that for you, it's a package deal" and explain why, they're losing face or something. Or that the request itself is... somehow... offensive I guess. I feel as though some of the people on this thread are annoyed or offended that a person would even ask that.

I get the same feeling. Earlier, I used the term "dictating" and you commented on it (HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY AUTHORITY!), and my use was to express the student's intent of imposing his terms on a school program only. After the initial thread starter, there was the supplement where the newbie explained his mentallity about martial arts... if it doesn't fit with the instructor's view, it won't be a good fit. Go with God... . It might feel insulting or strange, but to turn someone away based on that feeling is not professional or an example of martial arts character. Turning someone away based on your teaching philosophy, ethics and liability protection are reasonable.

 

[MichiganTKD]

We call these students "cherry pickers"-the ones who come to a class and only want to do one thing. They are a dime a dozen. I would tell the student if he wanted to practice he practices everything, not just sparring. My class my rules. If he persists, however, let him spar the black belts and see what happens. However, as mentioned above, I would be concerned about lawsuits. Guys like this are full of bluster, but as soon as they get hurt, they go crying to the courts. It seems like he is not interested in martial arts, he just wants to fight. In that case, let him be a streetfighter and frequent that crowd.
And no, martial arts are not about fighting, they are about being able to defend yourself. If you want to fight, join a gang.