Open vs. Closed Hand

[rziriak]

There is an old adage for hand techniques:

"Hard on soft, soft on hard."

While it's not entirely valid, it does serve as a fair guideline. I prefer to keep the knuckles on soft targets, such as the abdomen, etc. Hammer fist, palm heel, etc., are for the hard targets (top of head, forehead, etc).

Now THIS I will keep in mind!! Thanks

 

[FearlessFreep]

For some reaso, maye instinctual maybe just a natural result I've how I've been trained, but I'm usuallythinking along the lines of various weapon/target combinations.

Elbow->Face
Back Elbow->Temple
Palm Heel->Face
Knife Hand->Throat/Neck
Ridge Hand->Throat/Neck
Back Hand->Face
Back Hand->Temple
Spear Hand->Throat
Flat Fist->Throat
Elbow/Back Elbow-.Top/Back of Head

Fist->Solar-Plexus/Stomach
Elbow->Solar Plexus
---

I don't know if there is a principle in all that, mostly it just seems to me like I really don't like the idea of kunckles into the face and hard parts of the head

 

[richardgrannon]

one of the benefits of striking with an open hand, apart from protecting the knuckles is it leads in to a wide range of nasty clawing techniques i find!


clawing video clips

cheers

richie

www.streetfightek.com

 

[mc811]

I, find that I use both , but for the most part tend to use closed hand with my right and open hand with the left but still throw ridge hands and cross knife with the the right also............:asian:



Mitch.......

 

[arnisador]

one of the benefits of striking with an open hand, apart from protecting the knuckles is it leads in to a wide range of nasty clawing techniques i find!

I do like that it lets me get hold of the person more easily, and I certainly make use of that fact.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I use both most of the time.
I enjoy the closed hand for certian blocks when i really want to impart some pain but like the soft/open when i just want to deflect a movement.
I use the open hand for clawing, palm heel strikes, finger jabs to soft areas, but like to hit ribs, muscles cavities, large muscle groups with a close hand

 

[SAVAGE]

Open hand = soft
Fist= hard

Soft strike to hard target...hard strike to soft target!

*bows respectfully*

 

[Sapper6]

Open hand = soft
Fist= hard

Soft strike to hard target...hard strike to soft target!

*bows respectfully*

we've discussed that.

yeah, you can use that, but not necessarily all the time.

 

[Jagermeister]

Yet, with the stick, we like to strike bony targets! A stick to the kneecap hurts a lot more than one to the thigh.

I think the question here isn't concerning maximizing damage, rather it's a question of self-preservation. Remember, the stick doesn't feel pain and it certainly doesn't take weeks or months to recover from injury!

 

[SAVAGE]

we've discussed that.

yeah, you can use that, but not necessarily all the time.

True but it is a good general rule!

*bows respectfully*

 

[Cujo]

I guess I'm one of the odd ones because I use mostly closed hand and elbow techniques. That is not to say that I don't use open hand techniques, just not as often. Part of the reason is that I have injured both of my wrists and they no longer bend backwards so a palm heel strike just ain't gonna happen.

Pax
Cujo

 

[FearlessFreep]

OK, silly question. I keep seeing first about the soft versus hard matchups, and then the invariable reply that it doesn't always *have* to be like that. Unless I missed something, what I haven't seen is good examples of where that general principle either should or would be set aside.

In boxing and other sport competitions, you wear padded gloves (of varying sizes) and punching to the face, especially, and other parts of the head is done pretty generally. However, take off the gloves and such strikes are seemingly a bit problematic. Puching to the skull obviously goes against the hard/soft principle. Punching bare-nuckle to the face has some other issues.

I guess I'm curious of what would be good examples where hard/hard or soft/soft would make sense. I suppose there's always the matter of expedience where the only weapon and target you have available and you do what you need, but what about intentional decisions to strike a given target with a given weapon that would be against the hard/soft approach?

 

[MJS]

Just got the Mar. '06 issue of Black Belt magazine. There is an article by Jim Wagner regarding this very topic. I'm not going to post the entire article, but I will address certain points he made.

1: he states that its nonsense to think that a hand will be broke if a closed fist is used, stating that fingers can be hyperextended.

Well, if they're curled back, the way they should be, that won't happen.

2: When he hits someone, the last thing he is thinking about is the injury inflicted on his opponent. So what if I sprain my hand, I can still fight with those injuries.

Well, depending on how bad the injury is, that will determine if you can still use it or not. Coincidentally, I was doing focus mit drills last night, threw a hook, and hurt my wrist. Now, that was my own fault, for not having my hand in the proper position, but one the less, it hurt like hell!!! I still continued with the drills...stuipd I know...but changed to an open hand palm strike in place of the hook. I still got some damn good power from it too!!

3: He then talked about stopping power. You're going to get more power with a closed fist. The power will dissipate, etc etc.

While I may not get that KO with that 1 shot 1 kill mentality, that is not what I'm looking for. When it comes to SD, I don't want to gamble with thinking like that. Can it happen? Sure, but I'm not going to take my chances. If I can hit the jaw with a closed fist, I can move a bit higher and target the ear with the open palm.

Mike

 

[arnisador]

Didn't Mike Tyson break bones in his hand hitting a parking lot attendant in the head some years back?

I'll look for the article.

 

[jdinca]

3: He then talked about stopping power. You're going to get more power with a closed fist. The power will dissipate, etc etc.

Interesting. A heel hand is open palm and it takes the wrist out of the equation. To my mind, that would put it at the same level as a closed fist, if not more powerful.

 

[Grenadier]

Didn't Mike Tyson break bones in his hand hitting a parking lot attendant in the head some years back?

I'll look for the article.

Entirely possible.

All it takes is the hitting of some protruded bone structure in the head, to hit one of the carpals / metacarpals in your hand (or whatever the bones above the striking knuckles are). Your bones aren't well-reinforced there, and if you put a good bit of power behind that punch, and if those bones land perpendicular to the protruding bones, then it's all-too-easy to break your own hand.

 

[rutherford]

Eh, I need more training.

I tell myself over and over again to not hit somebody in the face with my fist. But, you know what? I like it.

And I have broken bones in my hand before, and my right thumb has been a mess of arthritis pain all week.

But it's so much fun.

 

[MJS]

Didn't Mike Tyson break bones in his hand hitting a parking lot attendant in the head some years back?

I'll look for the article.

I recall hearing that too. The wrapping and taping that they (boxers) do of course is going to give some added support, but obviously outside of the ring, nobody walks around with taped up hands. This is why I'm a bit more bias towards open hand strikes.

Mike

 

[BlackCatBonz]

i dont know if i am a big fan of the whole soft target/hard weapon, hard target/soft weapon approach.
i dont know if a palm heel to the head is as effective as an elbow to the head, or if a slap to someones shin as a block is going to be as effective as smashing their shin with an elbow or your own shin.
doesnt anyone condition their weapons anymore?

 

[jdinca]

i dont know if i am a big fan of the whole soft target/hard weapon, hard target/soft weapon approach.
i dont know if a palm heel to the head is as effective as an elbow to the head, or if a slap to someones shin as a block is going to be as effective as smashing their shin with an elbow or your own shin.
doesnt anyone condition their weapons anymore?

But what about my babysoft skin?

I would much prefer to use an elbow to a palm strike, or a fist. It really depends on the application, I guess.

As for a soft hand block to the shin as opposed to an elbow, again it depends on the application but I think I would rather do the soft hand block on the shin, as I was focusing on closing to use a hand or elbow strike to the head.