Olympic Karate KO.

[CB Jones]

I think if the opponent wasn't knocked out then they may have given him a penalty for the kick.

I agree. The other guy being unconscious created the problem with it having to be a disqualification.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Whether or not there should have been a DQ is open for debate amongst those not of the judges. It's their job to interpret and apply the rules. Personally, I can't come to an opinion either way despite putting some thought to it. Maybe some of the judges had a different personal opinion, but felt the rules demanded the DQ. It's a tough call IMO.

I do agree with punisher that had it been me who was KO'd in this instance, since I was behind on points, I would have traded medals, at least in a regular tournament. But this was not just another tournament - it was the Olympics where medal count has national implications, as well as for the country's athletic committees, and ultimately, the fighter's future within the organization. This complicates things quite a bit as such a choice is subjected to pushes and pulls in opposite directions. The Olympics (on all levels) is a large part politics. I'd take a less regulated and less organized tournament any day.

Had the kick landed on the face or on the side of the head then there wouldn't have been a KO.

Yes, it's very possible that had the kick landed on most parts of the head, it may NOT have been a KO. True, landing there could possibly cause a neurological short circuit. Landing on the neck, and carotid artery, can likely cause a cardio-circulatory short, interrupting the blood flow to the brain. Not sure which target has the best chance for a KO, and definitely not willing to be the subject of an experiment.

 

[TSDTexan]

Wow.

Iranian Olympian left unconscious in karate wins gold after opponent disqualified

An Iranian Olympian who was left unconscious during a karate match took home the gold medal after his opponent was disqualified.Iran’s Sajad Ganjzadeh won the karate kumite competition in the …

thehill.com

Was just coming to post this. Darn it Bill! You beat me to the punch.

While I have been stung in karate tournaments with a DQ for KOs.... It comes down to karatedo. The Japanese "art" that is more concerned with perfect form, and disregards the Imi, or meaning/function/Rationale of 'Te.

The Olympics are about Japanese Karatedo, they are not about Okinawan Karate-jutsu. If this is properly understood, then the judges gave the correct ruling.

JKF / WKF is not about self-defense, nor can it be focused on such matters.... Oh well.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Oh boy... can o' worms Bill

I'm on the fence. Completely ridiculous that he got a great kick in, seemed like the fellow leaned into it, and to win it through disqualification.... ugh.

But on the other hand in any other WKF tournament that rule simply applies. It's a part of the ruleset. Excessive contact especially through negligence and lack of control is penalised, as it's meant to be a show of good technique, control, timing and accuracy etc. Although I don't think this was the fault of the kicker, he did seem to lower his head to chudan/body level and into it too...

A real shame... the guy was absolutely gutted...

And yet, in all the other combat sports at the Olympics, a knock out is a win.

 

[_Simon_]

And yet, in all the other combat sports at the Olympics, a knock out is a win.

Yeah. That's the ruleset for those. This is the ruleset for this.

I bet in all those other combat sports there would for sure be ways to get disqualified, no?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yeah. That's the ruleset for those. This is the ruleset for this.

I bet in all those other combat sports there would for sure be ways to get disqualified, no?

I'm aware that this is the rule set. It's still a stupid rule.

 

[CB Jones]

I'm aware that this is the rule set. It's still a stupid rule.

Well one positive in this.....Karate Combat has offered contracts for a full contact rematch between the two.

 

[Steve]

Well one positive in this.....Karate Combat has offered contracts for a full contact rematch between the two.

I was just about to say the same thing. Looks like Karate Combat is using this as a way to promote their own brand and ruleset.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Well one positive in this.....Karate Combat has offered contracts for a full contact rematch between the two.

Next question, will they take them up on it? For that matter can they take them up on it based on the countries they are from, Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Based on the match I saw, Saudi Arabia’s Tareg Ali Hamedi was winning on points and has nothing to lose in a Karate Combat event. Iran’s Sajad Ganjzadeh, who won the gold by KO, has everything to lose in the Karate Combat match.

 

[CB Jones]

Next question, will they take them up on it? For that matter can they take them up on it based on the countries they are from, Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Based on the match I saw, Saudi Arabia’s Tareg Ali Hamedi was winning on points and has nothing to lose in a Karate Combat event. Iran’s Sajad Ganjzadeh, who won the gold by KO, has everything to lose in the Karate Combat match.

I think I read Ganjzadeh has accepted the contract. Not sure about Hamedi yet.

Hamedi did recieved 1.5 million dollars for winning silver by the Saudi Govt. So I dunno if he will accept the contract.

I think the initial goal of Karate Combat was to try and sign fighters that were trying to make the Olympics. Karate Combat was created about the same time it was announced that Karate would be in the Olympics and most of their fighters have a WKF background.

Their country of origin shouldn't be a problem since Karate Combat is international. They had events scheduled for Dubai in the past.

 

[CB Jones]

Correction: Ganjzadeh was already on contract with Karate Combat prior to the Olympics. So we just have to wait and see if Hamedi accepts.

 

[pel1188]

This ruling is exactly why I don’t agree with point karate. In my opinion it teaches some basics but then locks in bad habits. Full contact like Karate Combat or even light contact continuous is a better teacher of how to fight.
your opinion may be different but that’s mine.

 

[Alan0354]

That was a good kick, the guy dug into the kick, it's not intentional. That's not fair. I hope the Iranian guy is proud of his gold on the floor.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

That was a good kick, the guy dug into the kick, it's not intentional. That's not fair. I hope the Iranian guy is proud of his gold on the floor.

It's also not on the iranian contender that he got gold. I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but there's a lot of karate political ramifications and also literal political ramifications to him giving up the gold because of how he earned it. It's entirely possible he'd lose his contracts with any karate organizations, not be able to participate or be affiliated with WKF, the IOC itself, and/or deal with unknown ramifications to himself/family from the iranian government for giving up one of their medals.

 

[chiquest]

Just me, my concept of "budo", I would've given the gold medal to the other guy on the podium. He admits he was already losing on points and then wakes up to find out he won? I couldn't take a medal like that.

Sometimes I've seen competitors fake injury to take advantage of the excessive contact rule to win the match and collect the trophy. I think that's what happened in this case. When someone is knocked out, their eyes stare blankly into space without focusing or blinking. When the video coverage cut to the close up of the Blue competitor's face, he blinked and was clearly conscious. He scored only one point before that. His opponent was obviously the superior Martial Artist, so Blue should have given his Gold Medal to him as an honorable gesture. Because he did not do that demonstrates that he was using the rules to win the match. The judges were in a difficult position. That competitor was not going to continue, so they had to resort to the excessive contact rule.

 

[chiquest]

Sometimes I've seen competitors fake injury to take advantage of the excessive contact rule to win the match and collect the trophy. I think that's what happened in this case. When someone is knocked out, their eyes stare blankly into space without focusing or blinking. When the video coverage cut to the close up of the Blue competitor's face, he blinked and was clearly conscious. He scored only one point before that. His opponent was obviously the superior Martial Artist, so Blue should have given his Gold Medal to him as an honorable gesture. Because he did not do that demonstrates that he was using the rules to win the match. The judges were in a difficult position. That competitor was not going to continue, so they had to resort to the excessive contact rule.

I'm not a White Belt, but rather a 4th Degree Black Belt with 48 years of training.

 

[Nuuli]

I have a sports Dr reaction to the now famous kick it provides more details and another view.

So a perfect storm of blue moving in with head in the proper place for this kick. Both motions contributed to the result. Shouldn't there be a consideration for blue's actions. I've seen kicks are the victim does that with their head and the results. How does the attacker control the opponents action? Poor moves on one's part shouldn't result in a Gold Medal.

 

[Nuuli]

And yet, in all the other combat sports at the Olympics, a knock out is a win.

I just posted a link from a sports doctors reaction to the kick. There's an angle that shows blue action moving towards the kick which very much contributed to the result. And we've seen this many times non-tournament dojo training, tournaments. At the Olympic level I would expect better tactics from blue. Attempting to punch from that (kicking) distance?

 

[Buka]

I'm not a White Belt, but rather a 4th Degree Black Belt with 48 years of training.

The white belt designation under your name is based on your post count, not on any rank in actual Martial Arts. As you post more the designated rank goes up.

 

[chiquest]

The white belt designation under your name is based on your post count, not on any rank in actual Martial Arts. As you post more the designated rank goes up.

OK.