The next war?

[michaeledward]

In a simliar vein I saw a poll once just recently asking the American People if they want INTERNATIONAL MONITORS to safeguard the Presidental Elections this year.

Only American Hubris (arrogance) would reject such an offer.

If you were an African American in Broward County Florida in November of 2000, you would probably be more in favor of it.

Speaking of 'similar veins'; Did you hear about Florida's 'Felon Voter Role' list during this election cycle? 47,000 Felons who will be denied the right to vote (Double-Jeapordy anyone) ... only 61 on the list identified themselves as Hispanic.

Mike

 

[Mark Weiser]

The Problem is we can not all be one big happy family in this world of differences, religions, Creeds, etc....

Americans will I say again Americans will never allow an outside agency to become involved with our polictical process.

I for one would not be happy with the fact that I would have some Non-American tally my vote. Smacks of corruption and influence of the UN and or Foregin Government involved in our Presidential Election.

 

[michaeledward]

I don't think 'International Monitors' would be involved in our political process. They would be watching our political process. If questions arose, we would still have US Citizens, county supervisors holding the ballots up to the light to determine the intent of the voter. By having a neutral third party around to watch what was going on, we would have someone to point out, without the hinderence of politics (aka Katherin Harris) that something is fishy.

Don't you feel so much more comfortable knowing your vote is going to be tallied by a non-testable, non-traceable, non-recountable electronic voting machine that has been described as woefully inadequate in computer security proceedures.

 

[Makalakumu]

Don't you feel so much more comfortable knowing your vote is going to be tallied by a non-testable, non-traceable, non-recountable electronic voting machine that has been described as woefully inadequate in computer security proceedures.

A voting machine is nothing but a glorified adding machine. It counts I/O s. Yet this machine is classified. No one is allowed to see how it works...

 

[PeachMonkey]

In a simliar vein I saw a poll once just recently asking the American People if they want INTERNATIONAL MONITORS to safeguard the Presidental Elections this year.

This is already in the works.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/08/international.observers/index.html

To sum up, 13 Democratic congresspeople wrote UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan requesting international monitors for the elections this year, citing concerns about the 2000 elections. Annan rejected the request, saying it had to come from the country in question. The congressfolk then made the request of US Secretary of State Colin Powell, and the State Department apparently asked the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) to do so, and they agreed.

The OSCE previously monitored the 2002 mid-term elections, and the gubernatorial recall election in California.

 

[MartialArtist68]

Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't have to worry about security all the time...?

 

[kenpo tiger]

Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't have to worry about security all the time...?

I think that was the reason for people did drugs back in the 60s and 70s.

International monitors for our elections. Hmmm.

MichaelEdward,
(You notice I'm being particularly careful in how I address you. You New Englanders are a testy lot.)

I'd like to think that it's that difficult for third world countries to obtain the final piece - i.e., fissionable material - but, realistically, I must respectfully disagree with you. There are too many wealthy people manipulating too many poor countries to believe that the funds aren't available should the "right" situation present itself. Poor countries are only too willing to trade some of their natural assets for liquid assets and goods (e.g., gold mines or diamonds in South Africa for weapons).

And, what about the 'sleeping giants'? I was reading an article about the upcoming election in Egypt. They've remained fairly quiet within the context of all the happenings in the Middle East (ours and others). I can't help but think that some of those 'quiet' countries could be functioning as clearing houses for a whole passel of weapons - nuclear and otherwise - because of their low profile right now. KT

 

[Dr. Kenpo]

Well, we still have unfinished business with North Korea.

 

[michaeledward]

. . .
MichaelEdward,
(You notice I'm being particularly careful in how I address you. You New Englanders are a testy lot.)

I'd like to think that it's that difficult for third world countries to obtain the final piece - i.e., fissionable material - but, realistically, I must respectfully disagree with you. There are too many wealthy people manipulating too many poor countries to believe that the funds aren't available should the "right" situation present itself. Poor countries are only too willing to trade some of their natural assets for liquid assets and goods (e.g., gold mines or diamonds in South Africa for weapons).

And, what about the 'sleeping giants'? I was reading an article about the upcoming election in Egypt. They've remained fairly quiet within the context of all the happenings in the Middle East (ours and others). I can't help but think that some of those 'quiet' countries could be functioning as clearing houses for a whole passel of weapons - nuclear and otherwise - because of their low profile right now. KT

Well ... I try not to be too testy ... my first name is michael, my middle name is edward, my last name is atkinson .... michaeledward is the name I used to use when I was a guitar player ... it was never quite as catchy as 'Sting' ... but we try.

Concerning Fissionable Material ... it seems to me we have 3 choices.

1 - We can work on monitoring and controlling these materials.
2 - We can confiscate the materials, where ever they are (perhaps requiring military action)
3 - We can keep doing what we are doing, and hope for the best.

Are there other options? I don't know. Of the three I list, I believe that #1 is the best choice. And it is the best choice for those countries that don't have nuclear capabilities as well. South America is Nuclear Weapon Free by choice. But, a nuclear weapon can detonate in South America as easily as anyhwere else; thus it is in Brazil's interest to monitor fissile materials.

Concerning Egypt ... well, dont' we send alot of cash their way each year? Isn't that the price we paid for Egyptian - Israeli peace? Anyhow, it certainly is in the interest of the Egyptian government to ensure the safety and security of any fissile materials, where-ever it is.

It is not a perfect solution. There will always be the possibility of danger. So, how do we make the most reasonable steps toward securing our safety? The current relationship the United States has with Pakistan is an interesting example. There are some bad people in Pakistan. In their own self interest, they have become a player in fighting al Qaeda. We need to nurture that behavior, and expand upon it. It sure is strange to do this dance with the devil, but if we keep ignoring the country, they will work harder to get our attention (North Korea anyone).

We'll see. I am interested in what other ways people think might be effective in securing the worlds supply of 'highly enriched uranium' and 'plutonium'. Thoughts?

Mike

 

[Flatlander]

I'm concerned. I have been for a while. This is developing, folks.

Tehran — Defiant legislators — shouting “Death to America” — unanimously voted Sunday to approve the outline of a bill requiring the government to resume uranium enrichment, a move likely to deepen an international dispute over Tehran's atomic activities

Complete article.

 

[shesulsa]

Iran is not prohibited from enriching uranium under its obligations to the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty, but faces growing international pressure to suspend such activities as a good-faith gesture.

... and we think they're going to just hand over a gesture such as this? Have we learned nothing from our involvements with the East?

*sigh* One wonders how we are supposed to feel comfortable with ANY energy decision whatsoever. If we develop alternative fuel technology like many of us are sure we can, then we may be threatened into buying oil for our nation's safety (organized terrorism), and if we do maintain petrol-based energy technology and encourage this commerce, we must pay inflated prices or be threatened with our nation's safety, and if we try to control the area we lose the lives of thousands of volunteer soldiers for a temporary stranglehold that dissipates before we have even shaken the sand out of our boots.

The nuclear weapons threat just doesn't wanna go away, and I am increasingly concerned as well.

 

[PeachMonkey]

One wonders how we are supposed to feel comfortable with ANY energy decision whatsoever.

Indeed. Iran,, a country notoriously starved for foreign currency, claims that it's developing nuclear energy to free more of its oil production for overseas sales. You know, to oil-hungry nations like, say, the United States.

Moreover, to play devil's advocate, I imagine any sovereign nation in the region would feel a need for balanced deterrence, given Israel's likely possession of varieties of WMD, including nuclear weapons.

 

[Flatlander]

More worrisome to me than the debate over Iran's justification is how the US administration will respond. I have a feeling that they won't be interested in discussing the subject in a flexible fashion.

 

[PeachMonkey]

More worrisome to me than the debate over Iran's justification is how the US administration will respond. I have a feeling that they won't be interested in discussing the subject in a flexible fashion.

Certainly not as long as our Middle East policy is dictated to us by the Likud Party.

 

[Flatlander]

Oh, THERE's the pink elephant in the room! :rofl:

 

[shesulsa]

ha ha ha ha ha!Yes. Yes I do.

Hey! I know! Let's let the Canadians count the votes!!

 

[raedyn]

SS - I'm confused. Was that sarcastic, or heartfelt?

My first reaction was to volunteer for the task. But then I thought about it... I don't want to be held responsible by either side if their canidate doesn't win. So good luck to the elections officials; what a huge task!

 

[shesulsa]

:ultracool Mostly sarcastic and slightly heartfelt. Sorry! I should have used an emoticon to clarify!!

 

[Flatlander]

The next war may happen sooner than we might have thought. Iran's newly elected President is an experienced terrorist, and has been documented as saying and doing some very, very disturbing things.

Read this and see.

And bookmark that site. Its a good one.

 

[sgtmac_46]

The next war may happen sooner than we might have thought. Iran's newly elected President is an experienced terrorist, and has been documented as saying and doing some very, very disturbing things.

Read this and see.

And bookmark that site. Its a good one.

We've been ignoring Iran for far too long. They have had a hand in the vast majority of terrorist attacks on the US since 1979, and have done so virtually unpunished. Iran founded and continues to fund one of the most notorious terrorist organizations in history, the most with the exception of Al-Queda, Hezbollah.

They have sought nuclear weapons technology and, if they do not already possess it, will shortly.

A great deal of evidence suggests that high-ranking Al-Queda members fled to, are currently being harbored in Iran, to include Al-Zawari, and even possibly Osama Bin Laden himself.
Further mounting evidence exists that Iran played some as yet unclear role in either operations and planning for 9/11. Iran has engaged in whole sale assassination of any dissident within Europe it can send it's hit teams after for years.

This possible link with Al-Queda has some seriously spooky connotations.

It's current president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, may have personally been one of the hostage takers in the US Embassy.