Oldest Kukkiwon "black belt" at age 96 in the news

[ralphmcpherson]

This is not personal but I think you are pegging this child to your world and faulty understanding of what a Kukkiwon poom grade is.

The child trained in Taekwondo for three years under a Taekwondo instructor didn't he? Did he spend three years breaking timber? Many of us can pick most street children in Nairobi or grown thugs and teach them to break timber with what looks like a fantastic technique after a month of training. Those street and thugs can, without any training, do a lot of the physical garbage so many people assume is a prerequisite for blackbelt rank. But can they be called Kukkiwon Taekwondoin?

Further, assuming the child never trained again and at 18 years of age was awarded a Kukkiwon dan certificate, what would that mean? What would he use it for and how would that affect you, the suppossedly bona fide dan holder? Show off in the dojang? Enter an international competition? Demonstrate his advanced techniques to the public? Fight gangsters? Teach? Hang it on the wall? Maybe it might help the discussion if you could tell us excactly what you do with your hard earned non-Kukkiwon dan certificate.

I 100% agree with you first statement. I was "pegging this child to my world and faulty understanding of what a Kukkiwon poom grade is". I assumed the kukkiwon grading requirements were more demanding than they are, so I couldnt understand how a 6 year old could possibly get a black belt. Now, understanding what he had to do to get the black belt it all makes sense. I cant agree though that you could grab a child from nairobi or grown thugs and teach them to break timber with what looks like a fantastic tech after a months training. Unless, of course, we are calling a side kick break a "fantastic looking tech". I would consider a jump spinning hook kick or 540 kick a "fantastic looking tech", but thats just me.

 

[Archtkd]

I 100% agree with you first statement. I was "pegging this child to my world and faulty understanding of what a Kukkiwon poom grade is". I assumed the kukkiwon grading requirements were more demanding than they are, so I couldnt understand how a 6 year old could possibly get a black belt. Now, understanding what he had to do to get the black belt it all makes sense. I cant agree though that you could grab a child from nairobi or grown thugs and teach them to break timber with what looks like a fantastic tech after a months training. Unless, of course, we are calling a side kick break a "fantastic looking tech". I would consider a jump spinning hook kick or 540 kick a "fantastic looking tech", but thats just me.

That's a thread for another day, but if you ever get a chance, visit the Kenyan cities of Nairobi or Mombasa one day, get off the tourist path and check out the street action. You will be amazed. In Nairobi, where I grew up, I've seen and encountered untrained glue sniffing street kids, with fighting techniques and stunts that would shame many blackbelts of various styles. I've seen some of those kids challenge serious blackbelts in WTF sparring after only a few months of training. Turning those street kids into bonafide blackbelts is another story, though. But some of them acquire the discipline when they can find a good teacher, willing to teach them for free. One of those former street kids, who trained in the dojang where I began Taekwondo, is now Kenya's Taekwondo team national coach.

It's not just in the Third World where there are kids with amazing physical talent honed in the streets. Here in St. Louis, where I live, kids fly past my house in bicycles and skateboards and pull spectacular stunts that make me believe any good Taekwondo instructor could teach them how to break with a 540 spin kick in a very short time. But again, it might require an Herculean effort from even the best Taekwondoin to turn those kids into a Kukkiwon poom or dan holder.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

That's a thread for another day, but if you ever get a chance, visit the Kenyan cities of Nairobi or Mombasa one day, get off the tourist path and check out the street action. You will be amazed. In Nairobi, where I grew up, I've seen and encountered untrained glue sniffing street kids, with fighting techniques and stunts that would shame many blackbelts of various styles. I've seen some of those kids challenge serious blackbelts in WTF sparring after only a few months of training. Turning those street kids into bonafide blackbelts is another story, though. But some of them acquire the discipline when they can find a good teacher, willing to teach them for free. One of those former street kids, who trained in the dojang where I began Taekwondo, is now Kenya's Taekwondo team national coach.

It's not just in the Third World where there are kids with amazing physical talent honed in the streets. Here in St. Louis, where I live, kids fly past my house in bicycles and skateboards and pull spectacular stunts that make me believe any good Taekwondo instructor could teach them how to break with a 540 spin kick in a very short time. But again, it might require an Herculean effort from even the best Taekwondoin to turn those kids into a Kukkiwon poom or dan holder.

I can see where you are coming from. I have a friend who is a dancer. He heard me and one of my tkd mates talking about 540 kicks (which I cant do) and he asked what the hell a 540 kick is. We described it to him and said "oh, so it would be like this", and just did a 540 kick right there in front of us without a days MA training in his life. Very frustrating, but some people are just amazing when it comes to stuff like that.

 

[puunui]

I think a better way to look at this whole saga is to compare the performance of the child in question with his peers (children). The idea that 50, 40 and 30 somethings are making all this noise about a six year old, who probably did the best he could, is a bit disturbing.

Your comment and observation holds even more truth when looked at from an area in which we do already judge by comparison to one's peers. You see a seven year old who wins double gold in their respective division at a tournament. We all generally praise this practitioner for their extraordinary work, talent and ability. What we don't do is attempt to downplay their accomplishment by saying that they are not up to the standards of an adult and that if paired against an adult, that child would most certainly lose, therefore they are undeserving of their win.