Old Martial Arts techniques.

[Hanzou]

And you say I'm the one that's biased lol.

Is there something specific in that statement you disagree with?

And I'm the one who doesn't train with BJJ folks? A couple of BJJ guys that I know who do sports BJJ told me this. "We do BJJ, but we don't deal with punches when we compete."

Yet the core of Bjj is positional dominance, so while there is no striking in competition, the ability to dominate a position translates just fine into an MMA environment. It's relatively easy to adjust to striking situations in training.

This is the same thing that every other martial arts system goes through. Same thing I've been I've been saying for the longest. "Not everyone takes a martial arts to learn to fight."

Below is the same path that all martial arts take. BJJ is no exception. When people stop training to fight, then it becomes something else. If they didn't say the words BJJ, you would think they were talking about kung fu or something.

Again, the core of BJJ is positional dominance and getting out of inferior positions. That doesn't change whether you're doing sport or doing self defense BJJ. So while a sportive Bjjer will have to alter their game to adjust to the realities of striking, the transition isn't a huge one because they still have the "keys to the castle" so to speak. Like I said, this is where MMA's closeness with Bjj comes into play, because practitioners KNOW the difference between the two, and KNOW that they need to make an adjustment for a given situation. That realization stems from Bjj's history as art that started modern MMA.

Further, please note that several videos you posted are from folks with an agenda. As someone who comes largely from Relson Gracie's lineage of Bjj, I'm all too familiar with self defense BJJ folks looking to downplay sport BJJ folks.

In short. Your idea of Sports BJJ keeps MMA in check is totally wrong. Below is sports BJJ. Notice the score card. Notice there is no striking like there is in MMA.

Notice that we have multiple elite Bjj sport competitors who have entered MMA over the last few years and done very well.

 

[Hanzou]

I'm telling you your stances dictate what techniques you can do. But you dont' seem to understand that.

And I'm telling you that that doesn't really quite work that way in grappling. In grappling it's your opponent's stance that determines what you can do. When your opponent changes stances as a reaction to what you're doing, that changes the techniques you can do once again. This isn't like Karate where if you're in a front stance with all your weight is on your front leg so you can't kick.

You can literally see this in the Gracie in Action tapes where the Gracies typically just stand there and wait until their opponent makes a move, and then they (typically) go for a takedown.

I showed you a low BJJ stance and a Low Kung Fu stance and pointed out the similarities of how it protects the user. You are the only one on this thread having a MMA temper tantrum. We get it, You can't talk about martial arts unless you use the term MMA.

That's in a grappling competition. Again, look at how the Gracies fought in the Gracie in action tapes. That's the purest example of grappler vs striker.

Instead you go straight to MMA and what MMA is and how BJJ does this and that. And none of that talk has anything to do with why that low kung fu stance works.

Yes, because the point of this discussion is MMA, not your personal kung fu exploits.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yet the core of Bjj is positional dominance, so while there is no striking in competition, the ability to dominate a position translates just fine into an MMA environment. It's relatively easy to adjust to striking situations in training.

Don't tell me this. 1. I don't train BJJ and 2. I'm not the one who said those things about BJJ sport. Those are statements that come from BJJ practitioners.

For me I personally don't care what BJJ decides to do or doesn't decide to do with their Art. That's up to them and those who train it. Go tell them that.

Further, please note that several videos you posted are from folks with an agenda. As someone who comes largely from Relson Gracie's lineage of Bjj, I'm all too familiar with self defense BJJ folks looking to downplay sport BJJ folks.

Dude I don't even care. Now you sound just like that same story that goes on in any other Martial arts system.

"People from self-defense system, downplaying sport BJJ folk" You must be on the Sport BJJ side of things since. You seem to take such offense.

By the way EVERYONE HAS AN AGENDA.

 

[JowGaWolf]

And I'm telling you that that doesn't really quite work that way in grappling. In grappling it's your opponent's stance that determines what you can do.

You still don't understand. Your opponents stance doesn't determine what you can do. If you do BJJ then no matter how your opponent stands, you will still do BJJ.

 

[JowGaWolf]

And I'm telling you that that doesn't really quite work that way in grappling. In grappling it's your opponent's stance that determines what you can do. When your opponent changes stances as a reaction to what you're doing, that changes the techniques you can do once again. This isn't like Karate where if you're in a front stance with all your weight is on your front leg so you can't kick.

You can literally see this in the Gracie in Action tapes where the Gracies typically just stand there and wait until their opponent makes a move, and then they (typically) go for a takedown.

By the way. I'm done with you. Not even worth trying to communicate with you anymore.

 

[Hanzou]

Don't tell me this. 1. I don't train BJJ and 2. I'm not the one who said those things about BJJ sport. Those are statements that come from BJJ practitioners.

For me I personally don't care what BJJ decides to do or doesn't decide to do with their Art. That's up to them and those who train it. Go tell them that.

Tell them what? I'm not disagreeing with them.

Dude I don't even care. Now you sound just like that same story that goes on in any other Martial arts system..

Except those other Martial Arts systems don't have exponents of their style in MMA doing pretty much pure versions of their style in the MMA environment. In other words, people can complain about sport BJJ all they want, but the results speak for themselves.

 

[Buka]

No it's not. You take BJJ. I train BJJ with you. I learn what moves you do and how you try to set them up. Once I'm familiar with that , they I can use a Jow Ga escape to deal with the BJJ.

Real world example. BJJ likes to do good takes downs. For the most part, many use a take down that positions themselves under the opponent' structure. This uproots me. So now that I have had a chance to experience this and understand the strategy, I can start looking a Jow Ga to see if Jow Ga or Chin na has a defense for these type of attacks. The end result was the low kung fu stance.

View attachment 23802

All I've ever wanted for Christmas was the other guy to have that low stance.

You can no doubt kick my ash with every other stance you have.....but not with that puppy. Nuh-uh.

 

[JowGaWolf]

All I've ever wanted for Christmas was the other guy to have that low stance.

You can no doubt kick my ash with every other stance you have.....but not with that puppy. Nuh-uh.

Just out of curiosity what is your answer for that stance. If you and I were sparring and I thought you were trying to shoot for my legs. What would you response be? Just curious.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you and I were sparring and I thought you were trying to shoot for my legs. What would you response be? Just curious.

Stay low and put both hands in front of

- your knees (conservative approach), or
- your opponent's shoulders (aggressive approach).

 

[BrendanF]

Just out of curiosity what is your answer for that stance. If you and I were sparring and I thought you were trying to shoot for my legs. What would you response be? Just curious.

I've been following along - just wondering what you mean by the above JGW? My answer for that stance would not be singular. If you and I were sparring, and you thought I was trying to shoot.. well, either you'd be right (in which case the shot would be underway and ongoing) or you'd be wrong, and either it wasn't a shot, or it was a feint at one.

I have to say I'm with Buka on this one - I'd be quite confident that I'd be more maneuverable than you from my higher, more natural stance. I'd feint and move, and look to attack the lead leg and to close range, clinch and throw or trip you. I think you limit your options by adopting it. The grappler's advantage is that if you fail to land a decisive strike you're then significantly disadvantaged. Ultimately if that stance 'worked', it would work in high stakes, lucrative mma fights. It doesn't and never has.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've been following along - just wondering what you mean by the above JGW? My answer for that stance would not be singular. If you and I were sparring, and you thought I was trying to shoot.. well, either you'd be right (in which case the shot would be underway and ongoing) or you'd be wrong, and either it wasn't a shot, or it was a feint at one.

Because it matters. I've always been honest about my abilities here. So depending on your reaction, I can give you an honest answer on what I would try to do, or at the very least give you an idea of the options I'm looking at (thinking of ) at certain points. Your reaction will determine if I stay in a low stance or come out of it.

I can go to 2 or 3 level of thought before I get in the realm of "It depends" or I don't know

If you saw me standing in that stance. How would you deal with it. Attack as normal? if so what type attack would you go for? Or would you wait for me to attack?

 

[jobo]

Because it matters. I've always been honest about my abilities here. So depending on your reaction, I can give you an honest answer on what I would try to do, or at the very least give you an idea of the options I'm looking at (thinking of ) at certain points. Your reaction will determine if I stay in a low stance or come out of it.

I can go to 2 or 3 level of thought before I get in the realm of "It depends" or I don't know

If you saw me standing in that stance. How would you deal with it. Attack as normal? if so what type attack would you go for? Or would you wait for me to attack?

I'd kick you very hard in the knee cap with my steel toe capped boot, then be well out if range before you could do anything about it

 

[JowGaWolf]

I have to say I'm with Buka on this one - I'd be quite confident that I'd be more maneuverable than you from my higher, more natural stance.

This is true. you would be more maneuverable than me. This stance is "Short mobility" so I'm in it with the understanding that you'll be more mobile.
How tall are you. The reason I ask is because that determines how low I need to go.

The height of my low stance is relative to the height of my opponent. Depending on how tall you are, my stance may be low for you but not for me, and I may be able to have more mobility.

 

[jobo]

This is true. you would be more maneuverable than me. This stance is "Short mobility" so I'm in it with the understanding that you'll be more mobile.
How tall are you. The reason I ask is be that determines how low I need to go.

why does that matter if I'm kicking you in the knee cap?, I've had this discusion in class, drastically cutting your maneuverability, whilst presenting an easy tarket, is a quick way to a permanent limp

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'd feint and move, and look to attack the lead leg and to close range, clinch and throw or trip you.

Overall this is a good starting strategy. Especially with the kicks to the lead legs. I don't know how much mobility I will have without knowing your height.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think you limit your options by adopting it. The grappler's advantage is that if you fail to land a decisive strike you're then significantly disadvantaged.

When I'm in a low stance, like this, striking is the secondary option. The primary option will be grappling. If I was in a higher stance then the primary option is striking. What I tell students is this Low stance is for grappling and High stance is for striking. This is the general rule. I can still strike from this position, but what I really want is for you to make a bad entry as you come in to clinch. I want to force you to go lower than what is good for a single leg and to make any attempt to lift me difficult.

If you kick that lead leg then I'll have to address those kicks. There's a couple of ways that I may try, but it just depends on what types of kicks you are using and how far you are away from me when you throw those kicks. Your distance away from me is important because it will determine which options I'll have, same with my stance height. My other only option would be to raise my stance into a more mobile stance stance in order to deal with the kicks.

Generally speaking At this point. I have 2 options. To try and deal with the kicks while in low stance or disengage and raise my stance.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Ultimately if that stance 'worked', it would work in high stakes, lucrative mma fights. It doesn't and never has.

I don't know about you, but I don't fight in Lucritive MMA fights. Most of my sparring is done on concrete surfaces, or services that have a think layer of carpet on top of concrete. All of my real fights have been on concrete.

I can tell you one thing about this low stance and it's probably low stances in general. It requires a decent foot grip, so if your feet aren't getting a good grip then this stance will be slower than it would be with a good grip. The next time I have to do this on a mat without shoes, I'm going to wear cloth ankle brace and spray a sticky substance on the cloth to help improve my grip. I forget the name of the spray but it's used in sports medicine to help ankle wraps stay in place. Spray it on the skin, then wrap the joint.

 

[jobo]

When I'm in a low stance, like this, striking is the secondary option. The primary option will be grappling. If I was in a higher stance then the primary option is striking. What I tell students is this Low stance is for grappling and High stance is for striking. This is the general rule. I can still strike from this position, but what I really want is for you to make a bad entry as you come in to clinch. I want to force you to go lower than what is good for a single leg and to make any attempt to lift me difficult.

If you kick that lead leg then I'll have to address those kicks. There's a couple of ways that I may try, but it just depends on what types of kicks you are using and how far you are away from me when you throw those kicks. Your distance away from me is important because it will determine which options I'll have, same with my stance height. My other only option would be to raise my stance into a more mobile stance stance in order to deal with the kicks.

Generally speaking At this point. I have 2 options. To try and deal with the kicks while in low stance or disengage and raise my stance.

it's to late to " deal "with them when you already have a wrecked knee cap, not only are you current immobile you will still be immob9le when you stand up as your knee has gone

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'd kick you very hard in the knee cap with my steel toe capped boot, then be well out if range before you could do anything about it

If I thought you had steel toe boots or shoes then I would be in a more mobile stance from the beginning. Any boot or boot like shoe that I see, I automatically assume that it could be steel toe and therefore, I will take a different approach.

I don't fight people in boots the same way I fight people in sneakers. These are things that I take note of before or during. For example, every confrontation I've had except for 2. I was able to have enough time during the confrontation to take note of what they were wearing. I don't know about anyone else, but in the U.S. I'm always doing a visual check for guns and other possible weapons. I take note of belt buckles, and the mobility of their pants. This happens while the person is yelling and verbally assaulting me.

 

[jobo]

If I thought you had steel toe boots or shoes then I would be in a more mobile stance from the beginning. Any boot or boot like shoe that I see, I automatically assume that it could be steel toe and therefore, I will take a different approach.

I don't fight people in boots the same way I fight people in sneakers. These are things that I take note of before or during. For example, every confrontation I've had except for 2. I was able to have enough time during the confrontation to take note of what they were wearing. I don't know about anyone else, but in the U.S. I'm always doing a visual check for guns and other possible weapons. I take note of belt buckles, and the mobility of their pants. This happens while the person is yelling and verbally assaulting me.

it doesnt need to be a,steel top cap all iit needs to do is stop them wrecking their foot in the impact, any robust shoe will do even nnice shiny ones, getting kicked with ballet shoes or bare feet will likely hurt them as much as you, 7unless it's a ma kick with the ball of the foot or a stamp then you are still in a lot of pain

knees are a vulnerable target to be protected, dont hang them out in the breeze, it's just inviting trouble, for absolutely no gain

added to which you have now put your head in my target zone, that's not wise either