Old Martial Arts techniques.

[JowGaWolf]

Actually, I knee jerked my response. I'm sure you can change levels quite quickly. You would certainly have the leg strength to do so. But I wasn't speaking as a grappler but as a striker, which I am first and foremost.

I wouldn't want to be caught in that position to long against striking. High kicks are difficult to do. Lower kicks are easier and I rather not have my head in that easy zone. The real challenge for the most part is just reading the opponent and have a good feel and visual for when they are committed to striking and when they are committed to grappling. The commitment isn't too difficult to read, but the risk is more of "Did I read the commitment in time."

It's like getting a text message saying that the bus leaves at 2pm but you don't read it until 2:01pm. I read the message correctly , but that one minute late notice may mean that I'm late. So If I read a strike coming but I'm .5 seconds late reading it. Then I in a situation where I can't get out of the way in time. A lot of times I get it right, but sometimes (which is more than enough) I don't read the shift to strike soon enough.

unfortunately the only way to fix that is to continue to get kicked and figure it out, or to determine I'm not going to be able to physically, visual meet the time requirement. Physically = being able to move faster to compensate for the slow read.

 

[Buka]

I wouldn't want to be caught in that position to long against striking. High kicks are difficult to do. Lower kicks are easier and I rather not have my head in that easy zone. The real challenge for the most part is just reading the opponent and have a good feel and visual for when they are committed to striking and when they are committed to grappling. The commitment isn't too difficult to read, but the risk is more of "Did I read the commitment in time."

It's like getting a text message saying that the bus leaves at 2pm but you don't read it until 2:01pm. I read the message correctly , but that one minute late notice may mean that I'm late. So If I read a strike coming but I'm .5 seconds late reading it. Then I in a situation where I can't get out of the way in time. A lot of times I get it right, but sometimes (which is more than enough) I don't read the shift to strike soon enough.

unfortunately the only way to fix that is to continue to get kicked and figure it out, or to determine I'm not going to be able to physically, visual meet the time requirement. Physically = being able to move faster to compensate for the slow read.

"It's like getting a text message saying that the bus leaves at 2pm but you don't read it until 2:01pm."

I really liked that. And, dude, I missed that bus more than a few times in my competitive career. Heck, a couple times it damn near ran me over.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

High kicks are difficult to do.

I still remember many times after I had spared with my Karate/TKD guys, they no longer wanted to spar with me because my stance was too low. In the whole sparring, they didn't have chance to throw any head level high kick. For some unknown reason, they didn't want to throw low kick or middle level kick.

For some people, if a kick is not high, it's a bad kick.

 

[Martial D]

I wouldn't want to be caught in that position to long against striking. High kicks are difficult to do. Lower kicks are easier and I rather not have my head in that easy zone. The real challenge for the most part is just reading the opponent and have a good feel and visual for when they are committed to striking and when they are committed to grappling. The commitment isn't too difficult to read, but the risk is more of "Did I read the commitment in time."

It's like getting a text message saying that the bus leaves at 2pm but you don't read it until 2:01pm. I read the message correctly , but that one minute late notice may mean that I'm late. So If I read a strike coming but I'm .5 seconds late reading it. Then I in a situation where I can't get out of the way in time. A lot of times I get it right, but sometimes (which is more than enough) I don't read the shift to strike soon enough.

unfortunately the only way to fix that is to continue to get kicked and figure it out, or to determine I'm not going to be able to physically, visual meet the time requirement. Physically = being able to move faster to compensate for the slow read.

Let me preface this by stating I do like the fact you think testing your skills against an actual human is worthwhile. Many if not most traditional stylists do not.

But it is clear you are drinking your own Kool aid. I challenge you to walk into an MMA club or a Thai boxing academy, challenge them to spar with you and film it. If you can successfully do ANYTHING that looks like jow ga under these conditions, I will be utterly shocked. If you are sincere, you will consider this.

I was you..at one point. Our Kung Fu school did light sparring too, and I did exactly what I'm suggesting you do. The results were hard to swallow at first, but worthwhile..see my signature.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I still remember many times after I had spared with my Karate/TKD guys, they no longer wanted to spar with me because my stance was too low. In the whole sparring, they didn't have chance to throw any head level high kick. For some unknown reason, they didn't want to throw low kick or middle level kick.

For some people, if a kick is not high, it's a bad kick.

That's the tunnel vision that I was talking about. You took away the one thing they really wanted to do to you. That was the kick that they were tell legends about. They are so focus on that one thing that they forget there is other stuff. It's good for you that they could only see doing high kicks.

You beat them more than you thought. You took away the legendary tale of how they kicked a kung fu guy in the head. lol.

The more you deny your opponent what they want. The more they forget about the other things. I use that all the time.

 

[BrendanF]

Because it matters. I've always been honest about my abilities here. So depending on your reaction, I can give you an honest answer on what I would try to do, or at the very least give you an idea of the options I'm looking at (thinking of ) at certain points. Your reaction will determine if I stay in a low stance or come out of it.

I can go to 2 or 3 level of thought before I get in the realm of "It depends" or I don't know

If you saw me standing in that stance. How would you deal with it. Attack as normal? if so what type attack would you go for? Or would you wait for me to attack?

Yeah that was what caused my confusion; you asked how I would react to you thinking I was shooting for your legs. Hence my explanation - I don't read minds, so I wouldn't react to you thinking anything.

The reality is that stance is so low as to limit mobility. You claimed the offset advantage is 'preventing someone getting under my center of gravity' and that it's primarily a grappling stance.

There is a reason no grappling arts adopt that stance. It is immobile, lateral and therefore exposes one side of your body.

Your response of 'I can move into an upright stance too' etc ignores that lack of motility - you can't move into a more upright stance faster than I can strike or feint from a more natural one. You can't move into anything from that stance, as fast as someone who is not in that stance. And in grappling terms there are just obvious weaknesses to exploit, that don't necessarily involve 'getting under your center of gravity'.

 

[drop bear]

If someone is thinking about shooting for your legs then they aren't thinking about kicking it. If they are kicking your legs then they aren't thinking about the shoot, which is why they are kicking.

A dirty trick I do is kick the leg and then shoot when the guy checks.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If you can successfully do ANYTHING that looks like jow ga under these conditions, I will be utterly shocked.

No you won't, won't be shocked. You will just say that we really weren't sparring or that the Muay Thai fighter was going easy on me. This patter has already shown itself. There's be no reason why you would change.

challenge them to spar with you and film

I don't have to challenge them. I just have to ask them. A challenge fight is something thing different, there's nothing respectful or good about a challenge fight and I wouldn't go to a gym with that attitude just so you can see me do Jow Ga Kung Fu. That's not only disrespectful for you, but it shows my weakness because I did it because someone wanted me to. I got more respect for myself and others to do something like that. The next time I visit my brother, I'll go to his gym and I'll ask the head Coach is it ok if I could train with them that day and do some sparring with some of there guys. Doing it this way keeps me on their good side and will most likely provide more opportunities to spar against a Muay Thai gym.

Even if I do that it doesn't mean that I'll get a chance to film them. I have to ask for permission to do so and give them my word that I won't show the film as if I'm trying to put the school in a bad light. Not sure if you have being paying attention but I always speak highly of the Sanda School that I sparred with. I also asked for permission to film my sparring sessions with their school. If they say no filming then I have to respect that. I get to do Jow Ga and you don't get to see it. Even if I do film it, It doesn't mean that I will show you. There are some people here that I don't mind showing , but that's only because of the respect that we show each other. So that's the "Kool Aid that I drink."

If you are sincere, you will consider this.

What am 6 years old. You determine what makes me sincere? I will continue to spar against other systems as I originally planned and have done in the past. I will do this regardless of what you believe or don't believe in about my abilities. The videos I shared I didn't have, and I didn't go sparring at a Sanda school to prove something to someone else.

I was you..at one point. Our Kung Fu school did light sparring too, and I did exactly what I'm suggesting you do.

I don't think so. I don't think you were like me at one point. I'm pretty sure I haven't seen you spar before. I'm pretty sure you don't do Jow Ga Kung Fu. I'm pretty sure you didn't spar against a Sanda School which inspired you to train harder in your system. Because you saw how your training was lacking. I'm pretty sure that's my life. The lessons I learned from the Sanda School about my faulty training weren't "hard to swallow" I spar to learn so anything that I experience that will help to make me better in my own system is a good thing that I cherish. I take that lesson and correct my training and then I train harder.

Our Kung Fu school did light sparring too,

In my kung fu school (before I was an instructor) we always went at it hard. Even when the Sifu told us to lighten up we would go at it. The result was often more injuries and less sparring, the the less we could attempt new applications because making a mistake when sparring hard is costly. During that time I broke my finger 3 times, hyper extended my elbow at least 4 times.(during sparring from techniques being used on me), then would spar on the injury 3 weeks later. It took a year for it to complete heal because it was always getting re-injured.

Being injured all the time sucks. It's wasn't until I became an instructor that I did what my Sifu was telling us to do all along. It wasn't until I stopped worrying about how hard I can hit, or how much damage I could take, that I became better at kung fu.

Your response of 'I can move into an upright stance too' etc ignores that lack of motility - you can't move into a more upright stance faster than I can strike or feint from a more natural one.

Yeah you keep think thinking that. You may not be able to move between stances fast, but in Jow Ga schools, a class doesn't go by that we don't train how to move between stances quickly. That's kind of the key to everything.

0:36 - 0:39 1 knee and 3 stance changes with multiple strikes and he slowed down at the end. I used the stop watch on my computer and it took him about 2.21 seconds.

Tons of stance levels and changes.

Again Various Stance changes from low positions. We do a lot of training that involves stance transitions from high to low and low to high. B All of that jumping up and down is from our Shaolin roots.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The reality is that stance is so low as to limit mobility. You claimed the offset advantage is 'preventing someone getting under my center of gravity' and that it's primarily a grappling stance.

I've already explained all of this go back and read previous posts.

There is a reason no grappling arts adopt that stance. It is immobile, lateral and therefore exposes one side of your body.

Most grappling arts do not have striking in them so they are going to adopt stances that aren't done when someone kicks or punches. Most grappling arts don't use weapons like staff, sword, and spear.

I've said this a million times it seems YOUR STANCE DICTATES THE TECHNIQUES THAT WILL FLOW FROM IT. Staff, Spear, Sword techniques will not flow from these stances.

Boxing technique will not flow from this but boxing has grappling
Muay That Techniques will not flow from this but Muay Thai has grappling.
Karate will not flow from stances like this but Karate has grappling
Wing Chun will not flow from stances like this but Wing Chun has grappling
Jow Ga will not flow from stances like this but Jow Ga has grappling. Both open hands and weapons, in case someone tries to take your staff and beat you with your own weapon

 

[JowGaWolf]

A dirty trick I do is kick the leg and then shoot when the guy checks.

I like that. I do something similar with a foot hook. I haven't tried it off a leg check before. I would like to see how that looks.

This is a good example of. "If they are doing a leg check, then they aren't thinking about the shoot." all of that focus is on that leg check, they won't think shoot until it's too late. Have you ever done it so many times that they were hesitant about checking the kick because they are thinking about the shoot? lol

 

[JowGaWolf]

ou can't move into anything from that stance, as fast as someone who is not in that stance.

The low kung fu stance is "Short mobility" not "Long mobility" Just because it can't move 3 feet quickly doesn't mean that it can't move from one stance to another or to move the leg quickly with the same area. This stance isn't used to "get away from stuff"

 

[Martial D]

No you won't, won't be shocked. You will just say that we really weren't sparring or that the Muay Thai fighter was going easy on me. This patter has already shown itself. There's be no reason why you would change.

I don't have to challenge them. I just have to ask them. A challenge fight is something thing different, there's nothing respectful or good about a challenge fight and I wouldn't go to a gym with that attitude just so you can see me do Jow Ga Kung Fu. That's not only disrespectful for you, but it shows my weakness because I did it because someone wanted me to. I got more respect for myself and others to do something like that. The next time I visit my brother, I'll go to his gym and I'll ask the head Coach is it ok if I could train with them that day and do some sparring with some of there guys. Doing it this way keeps me on their good side and will most likely provide more opportunities to spar against a Muay Thai gym.

Even if I do that it doesn't mean that I'll get a chance to film them. I have to ask for permission to do so and give them my word that I won't show the film as if I'm trying to put the school in a bad light. Not sure if you have being paying attention but I always speak highly of the Sanda School that I sparred with. I also asked for permission to film my sparring sessions with their school. If they say no filming then I have to respect that. I get to do Jow Ga and you don't get to see it. Even if I do film it, It doesn't mean that I will show you. There are some people here that I don't mind showing , but that's only because of the respect that we show each other. So that's the "Kool Aid that I drink."


What am 6 years old. You determine what makes me sincere? I will continue to spar against other systems as I originally planned and have done in the past. I will do this regardless of what you believe or don't believe in about my abilities. The videos I shared I didn't have, and I didn't go sparring at a Sanda school to prove something to someone else.

I don't think so. I don't think you were like me at one point. I'm pretty sure I haven't seen you spar before. I'm pretty sure you don't do Jow Ga Kung Fu. I'm pretty sure you didn't spar against a Sanda School which inspired you to train harder in your system. Because you saw how your training was lacking. I'm pretty sure that's my life. The lessons I learned from the Sanda School about my faulty training weren't "hard to swallow" I spar to learn so anything that I experience that will help to make me better in my own system is a good thing that I cherish. I take that lesson and correct my training and then I train harder.


In my kung fu school (before I was an instructor) we always went at it hard. Even when the Sifu told us to lighten up we would go at it. The result was often more injuries and less sparring, the the less we could attempt new applications because making a mistake when sparring hard is costly. During that time I broke my finger 3 times, hyper extended my elbow at least 4 times.(during sparring from techniques being used on me), then would spar on the injury 3 weeks later. It took a year for it to complete heal because it was always getting re-injured.

Being injured all the time sucks. It's wasn't until I became an instructor that I did what my Sifu was telling us to do all along. It wasn't until I stopped worrying about how hard I can hit, or how much damage I could take, that I became better at kung fu.

Yeah you keep think thinking that. You may not be able to move between stances fast, but in Jow Ga schools, a class doesn't go by that we don't train how to move between stances quickly. That's kind of the key to everything.

0:36 - 0:39 1 knee and 3 stance changes with multiple strikes and he slowed down at the end. I used the stop watch on my computer and it took him about 2.21 seconds.

Tons of stance levels and changes.

Again Various Stance changes from low positions. We do a lot of training that involves stance transitions from high to low and low to high. B All of that jumping up and down is from our Shaolin roots.

You often refer to your sparring videos while talking yourself up. I'm just saying if it was real sparring against an opponent that's actually trying to hit you or take you down it would lend your claims of really trying to make your jow ga into a legit system some weight.

I spar/have sparred against many legit guys. I'm not going to say I'm some amazing fighter but I've done it enough to tell the difference between two guys trying to get at eachother and two guys that aren't, anyway.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If a kung fu school has a lion dance team just ac

You often refer to your sparring videos while talking yourself up.

I often refer to my sparring video because it's stuff that I can show that I can do. It makes me no sense for me say. "hey guys, I can do Jow Ga techniques and I can do this technique here and I land it most of the times that I use it."

How many times do you see TMA talk about what is possible, what they can do, and never show proof or examples. of it. If there were other Jow Ga sparring videos that show Jow Ga sparring, specifically about the techniques I talk about, then feel free to share them. Let me know how that search goes. As a matter of fact. Look up Jow Ga sparring on youtube and let me know what you find.

I'm just saying if it was real sparring against an opponent that's actually trying to hit you or take you down it would lend your claims of really trying to make your jow ga into a legit system some weight.

You have seen me spar with people who were trying to hit me, and kick me.
I have grappled with people who were really trying to take me down. It's just that you weren't there and I don't record every single thing I do in Jow Ga. Like the staff training I've been doing lately. I haven't recorded any of it. That time when I was training at the Sanda School to be in competitive fighting using Jow GA. I didn't record that, but it happened. That day when the Sanda Coach kicked me in the stomach when he was explaining long fist techniques. That happened too. It's not on video. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean that it happened.

As far as making Jow Ga into a legit system. It's already legit. The issue isn't about the system, the issue is about me and my ability to use the skills in the system. I don't need to make Jow Ga into anything. Not sure why people think they need to "Make the system legit." Spend quality time training the techniques of a system and learning how to correctly apply them. Jow Ga isn't a problem that needs to be fix. I'm a practitioner that trains in Jow Ga with the goal to be functional with Jow Ga.

but I've done it enough to tell the difference between two guys trying to get at each other and two guys that aren't, anyway.

What you want to see is a fight and you aren't going to see that from me. Not unless someone attacks me in the street and a bystander records it.

 

[drop bear]

I like that. I do something similar with a foot hook. I haven't tried it off a leg check before. I would like to see how that looks.

This is a good example of. "If they are doing a leg check, then they aren't thinking about the shoot." all of that focus is on that leg check, they won't think shoot until it's too late. Have you ever done it so many times that they were hesitant about checking the kick because they are thinking about the shoot? lol

I hit a single leg which is easier to do if their foot is already off the ground.

 

[BrendanF]

Yeah you keep think thinking that. You may not be able to move between stances fast, but in Jow Ga schools, a class doesn't go by that we don't train how to move between stances quickly. That's kind of the key to everything.

0:36 - 0:39 1 knee and 3 stance changes with multiple strikes and he slowed down at the end. I used the stop watch on my computer and it took him about 2.21 seconds.

Tons of stance levels and changes.

Again Various Stance changes from low positions. We do a lot of training that involves stance transitions from high to low and low to high. B All of that jumping up and down is from our Shaolin roots.

Yeah I will keep thinking that - all evidence supports my view.

I'm familiar with the training methods. I studied CLF for a time.

Most grappling arts do not have striking in them so they are going to adopt stances that aren't done when someone kicks or punches. Most grappling arts don't use weapons like staff, sword, and spear.

I've said this a million times it seems YOUR STANCE DICTATES THE TECHNIQUES THAT WILL FLOW FROM IT. Staff, Spear, Sword techniques will not flow from these stances.

Boxing technique will not flow from this but boxing has grappling
Muay That Techniques will not flow from this but Muay Thai has grappling.
Karate will not flow from stances like this but Karate has grappling
Wing Chun will not flow from stances like this but Wing Chun has grappling
Jow Ga will not flow from stances like this but Jow Ga has grappling. Both open hands and weapons, in case someone tries to take your staff and beat you with your own weapon

Yes, I understand that.

The difficulty you have with that stance is; it's garbage for grappling for the reasons I mentioned..

and it's garbage for striking for the reasons I mentioned.

If your opponent is able to move easier than you, faster than you, in more directions than you, and your stance is already compromised by being unstable - you are at a significant disadvantage. As I said, that's why it is a stance we don't see in real fighting.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yeah I will keep thinking that - all evidence supports my view.

I'm familiar with the training methods. I studied CLF for a time.



Yes, I understand that.

The difficulty you have with that stance is; it's garbage for grappling for the reasons I mentioned..

and it's garbage for striking for the reasons I mentioned.

If your opponent is able to move easier than you, faster than you, in more directions than you, and your stance is already compromised by being unstable - you are at a significant disadvantage. As I said, that's why it is a stance we don't see in real fighting.

If you do not train to move fast in low stance then you won't be able to move fast in low stance. So the question you have answer is. Do you train to move fast while in low stance?

 

[BrendanF]

If you do not train to move fast in low stance then you won't be able to move fast in low stance. So the question you have answer is. Do you train to move fast while in low stance?

You're not getting it. You can't move as fast in that low stance as you can in a more natural one. In the same way no amount of training will get you out of the blocks faster against a sprinter if you take any stance other than that of a sprinter on the blocks. This is not my opinion, it is just basic biophysics. No amount of training can overcome such a significant disadvantage.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You can't move as fast in that low stance as you can in a more natural one.

You aren't supposed to move all over the place with this stance. That's not not the purpose of this stance. Different stances have different functions and are used based on need.

In the same way no amount of training will get you out of the blocks faster against a sprinter if you take any stance other than that of a sprinter on the blocks.

"Short mobility" = juke (used to break ankles) quick moves covering small area (no sprinter movement used)
"Log mobility" = higher stance. (You do not use short mobility to get to the hoop) quick moves covering larger area

Short mobility -> low stance (not sprinter stance) used against a higher stance. Used for quick short movements. If you do not train to move quickly in this stance then you will not be able to move quickly in it.

 

[Hanzou]

Yup, we're back to a "my Kung Fu doesn't allow me to get taken down" argument. It's 1994 all over again!

 

[Martial D]

If a kung fu school has a lion dance team just ac

I often refer to my sparring video because it's stuff that I can show that I can do. It makes me no sense for me say. "hey guys, I can do Jow Ga techniques and I can do this technique here and I land it most of the times that I use it."

How many times do you see TMA talk about what is possible, what they can do, and never show proof or examples. of it. If there were other Jow Ga sparring videos that show Jow Ga sparring, specifically about the techniques I talk about, then feel free to share them. Let me know how that search goes. As a matter of fact. Look up Jow Ga sparring on youtube and let me know what you find.



You have seen me spar with people who were trying to hit me, and kick me.
I have grappled with people who were really trying to take me down. It's just that you weren't there and I don't record every single thing I do in Jow Ga. Like the staff training I've been doing lately. I haven't recorded any of it. That time when I was training at the Sanda School to be in competitive fighting using Jow GA. I didn't record that, but it happened. That day when the Sanda Coach kicked me in the stomach when he was explaining long fist techniques. That happened too. It's not on video. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean that it happened.

As far as making Jow Ga into a legit system. It's already legit. The issue isn't about the system, the issue is about me and my ability to use the skills in the system. I don't need to make Jow Ga into anything. Not sure why people think they need to "Make the system legit." Spend quality time training the techniques of a system and learning how to correctly apply them. Jow Ga isn't a problem that needs to be fix. I'm a practitioner that trains in Jow Ga with the goal to be functional with Jow Ga.

What you want to see is a fight and you aren't going to see that from me. Not unless someone attacks me in the street and a bystander records it.

Just saying. You make a lot of claims about what you can do with jow ga. Many people here have pointed out weaknesses in it, such as your low stance(it's super easy to take down someone that stands like that, you have no base or mobility) yet you seem to have some rose colored beliefs. I don't think you really want to put them to the test at all.