Ok my issue with thinking that specificity allways means most appropriate

[skribs]

Sort of. Sort of not. It was a kempo school, where kempo was taught. The entire SK curriculum was taught, and was the focus (which is a primarily SD system). However, training-wise, we would have 'sparring' training days where we learned things outside the system. Exercise regimens came from their kickboxing training, and we would do kickboxing-type sparring about 75% of the time when we sparred. Exceptions were when we would do specific/situational sparring, which included multiple attackers, trying to escape a situation, sparring until we get a weapon, sparring from the ground to get to our feet (grappling itself was not a focus), etc. IMO those sparrings were realistic; we wouldn't always magically escape, i'd get 'cut' with the persons knives more times than I escaped, etc.

To clarify breakdown, at the end of every class, there was about 30 minutes of sparring, and once a week we would do the situational sparring. To me it was a nice balance of specificity training, staying true to our roots, but also practicing in a way that we could tell if what we were learning worked or not.

So you trained sport kickboxing and cardio kickboxing, and then kenpo self defense, with some situational self defense thrown in, is what it sounds like. What percentage of the class would you say was each? (Just curious)

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

So you trained sport kickboxing and cardio kickboxing, and then kenpo self defense, with some situational self defense thrown in, is what it sounds like. What percentage of the class would you say was each? (Just curious)

2/3rds of the time was kempo, the other third was sparring. 75% of sparring was kickboxing style, the other 25% was situational. The situational self defense was part of the kempo system.

Edit: The first 15 minutes or so were generally a warm up/stretch, which was running/HIIT/bagwork. Forgot about that part.

Classes were 90-120 minutes.

Second edit: it's been about 4 years since I've been there, so I may be getting the time timing/percentages a bit off

 

[Buka]

If I had an argument with a young Mike Tyson or Roy Jones Jr, then I would know from the beginning of the argument that I'm not fighting either one of them. They could punk me all they want because a fight wouldn't be in my best interest. Now if they attacked me then I would have to defend myself to the best of my ability, but I know it's going to be one of those fights that you physically lose,....

Why would you say that? Losing going in. To two guys who only have one skill set?

I think you looked at that whole scenario wrong. If it was both of them against you....oh, that would really suck.

 

[jobo]

That would, then, hold true for every single fight. Including professional fights.
Of course, fitness level is only one of a huge number of factors determining the outcome of a fight.
And unless you do nothing but train, you'll never be as fit as you could be.
The problem for most of the world is that pesky things like earning a living get in the way of training full time.

competative fighting has a predetermind minimum level of fitness, that being that you can last 3,4,10,12 rounds , that's not true for a class that says they will make you fit to fight, when they have no idea what fitness level you will need to see out a fight

 

[JowGaWolf]

in that case when they call it "fit to fight" they are misrepresenting it some what, maybe fit to fight if your attacker is in marginally worse condition than you are would be more accyrate

in some cases that's what it is. How many people train sparring vs the number of people who don't train sparring. From there you can play the probabilities. How many people train kicks vs how many people don't train kicks? From there you can add sparring +kicking and things start to look better in terms of your training vs the probability that someone doesn't train.

The more self-defense / fighting characteristics you can tag on as part of your ability the better your chances look and the higher the probability will be that the person who is attacking you is marginally in worse condition than you. I'll use myself as example:

1. sparring experience
2. Out of shape from 5 + months of not training
3. Knows how to fight
4. Has some body and bone conditioning
5. Understands fighting
6 Can punch hard
7. Can kick hard
8. Can sweep
9. Can elbow hard
10. Knows a martial arts
11. Can grapple but not on the ground.
12. sneaky.

Now if I get attacked and there is no weapon involved, then what are the chances my attacker will have half of what I listed? May be the attacker will have #1,#3, #5, #6 and #11. That still gives me a lot to work with, and keep in mind this isn't a full list. The more I can add to this list and the better I can do what is on the list, the more likely the person that attacks me will be in worse condition in comparison to the condition a person has to be in to do all of this.

 

[Dirty Dog]

competative fighting has a predetermind minimum level of fitness, that being that you can last 3,4,10,12 rounds , that's not true for a class that says they will make you fit to fight, when they have no idea what fitness level you will need to see out a fight

I agree, insofar as we restrict that to competitive events. Most real world fights last a few seconds and your fitness level becomes less important than having the ability and willingness to do whatever it takes to stop the other person from being a threat.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Why would you say that? Losing going in. To two guys who only have one skill set?

Because a young Mike Tyson and a Young Roy Jones Jr were beasts in their prime. There is just no way I could compete with that when my training was never as intense as what they were doing when they were fighting professionally. That's just the reality of it. Now if I trained kung fu like they trained their professional boxing careers then the story would be different. They would still be dangerous, but I would be dangerous to them as well. But since I've never trained kung fu at that an intensity like that, there's just no way I could even get a draw. It boils down who trained the hardest and who honed their fighting skills to a high degree. I haven't so yes, I would go in losing before the fight starts lol.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Because a young Mike Tyson and a Young Roy Jones Jr were beasts in their prime. There is just no way I could compete with that when my training was never as intense as what they were doing when they were fighting professionally. That's just the reality of it. Now if I trained kung fu like they trained their professional boxing careers then the story would be different. They would still be dangerous, but I would be dangerous to them as well. But since I've never trained kung fu at that an intensity like that, there's just no way I could even get a draw. It boils down who trained the hardest and who honed their fighting skills to a high degree. I haven't so yes, I would go in losing before the fight starts lol.

Sure there is. If it's a sporting event, you just need to make absolutely sure that the rules favor your strengths, not theirs. You'd still be facing long odds, perhaps, but you have a chance.
If it's not sporting, then maybe you'd just have to shoot them.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If I had to fight either of those guys (or similar), conditioning wouldn’t enter the equation in any way, shape, nor form. I’d be unconscious well before either one of us was gassed.

yep. it's just a reality. I remember professional fighters who thought they could beat Tyson and said as much. Back then the expectation for a Tyson fight was that it was going to be short lol.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Sure there is. If it's a sporting event, you just need to make absolutely sure that the rules favor your strengths, not theirs. You'd still be facing long odds, perhaps, but you have a chance.
If it's not sporting, then maybe you'd just have to shoot them.

lol.. If it's a sporting event. Chess would be my safest bet. Or anything that doesn't involve him punching me. I think I can take them on in a Monkey Bar Chicken Fight lol.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

competative fighting has a predetermind minimum level of fitness, that being that you can last 3,4,10,12 rounds , that's not true for a class that says they will make you fit to fight, when they have no idea what fitness level you will need to see out a fight

Actually, it's not as cut-and-dried as your statement. You have to last 3,4,10,12 rounds against someone of a given ability and conditioning. That's very different requirements depending upon who your opponent is.

 

[jobo]

Actually, it's not as cut-and-dried as your statement. You have to last 3,4,10,12 rounds against someone of a given ability and conditioning. That's very different requirements depending upon who your opponent is.

i said it was a MINIMUM fitness level,

 

[jobo]

I agree, insofar as we restrict that to competitive events. Most real world fights last a few seconds and your fitness level becomes less important than having the ability and willingness to do whatever it takes to stop the other person from being a threat.

they last a few seconds, because as a rule at least one doesnt don't have the fitness to last much longer,you don't really want that to be you ?

 

[drop bear]

I agree, insofar as we restrict that to competitive events. Most real world fights last a few seconds and your fitness level becomes less important than having the ability and willingness to do whatever it takes to stop the other person from being a threat.

Unless the fight doesn't fit the dogma and you are still stuck fighting for longer than a few seconds.

 

[Dirty Dog]

they last a few seconds, because as a rule at least one doesnt don't have the fitness to last much longer,you don't really want that to be you ?

Well, no. From what I've seen treating a few thousand people following fights, they last a few seconds because at least one doesn't have the will to continue fighting, or because someone gets knocked down/out. Very, very few people are really willing to stand there trading strikes. The vast majority are hit a couple times and it's over.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

i said it was a MINIMUM fitness level,

And I said that it takes a different fitness level to survive rounds, depending who the opponent is. Give me a slow, out-of-shape guy, and I can easily last 15 rounds with him (from an endurance standpoint). Give me an elite athlete, and I probably don't last more than 1 (again, only looking at endurance), because he can move me around the ring and get shots in that rob me of endurance. Which are you saying is the minimum?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

they last a few seconds, because as a rule at least one doesnt don't have the fitness to last much longer,you don't really want that to be you ?

I've not seen evidence (in most of the videos I can find) of someone gassing out and it costing them the fight. That typically only happens if the fight lasts 30 seconds or more, and those are (again among the population of videos I have found) mostly rage fights (road rage, etc.). Those are the fights where (for the non-competitor) gassing out will be an issue.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Unless the fight doesn't fit the dogma and you are still stuck fighting for longer than a few seconds.

Which - while uncommon - does happen. I can't see it lasting minutes under realistic scenarios, but 30-90 seconds does happen.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well, no. From what I've seen treating a few thousand people following fights, they last a few seconds because at least one doesn't have the will to continue fighting, or because someone gets knocked down/out. Very, very few people are really willing to stand there trading strikes. The vast majority are hit a couple times and it's over.

While I agree that seems to be the vast majority of cases, there is a smaller number of fights that go longer. Looking at videos, most of them seem avoidable (they are most commonly rage fights, so there are lots of cues and most often ready opportunities to avoid them).

 

[JowGaWolf]

Which - while uncommon - does happen. I can't see it lasting minutes under realistic scenarios, but 30-90 seconds does happen.

Women tend to engage in physical striking longer than men. They also tend to be in situations where a struggle occurs such as sexual assault.