The Need for ranks and belts? You Opinion?

[Corporal Hicks]

You know, do you reckon reputation points are like belts? They give somebody a reason to stay on the website yet people (like me) are more interested in what they can learn rather than what they can gain through some different coloured dots. Not that they are a bad thing of course!

 

[dubljay]

I can see a similarity there hicks. Much like you I really don't care much about rep points, or the number of posts I have. I don't post that much, I prefer to read other people's opinions, which are usually better informed than my own.

 

[47MartialMan]

Belts have become either a commercial vehicle for more profits or a visual lure/aid for progress made

 

[MichiganTKD]

Seems to me the ones who disagree with the concept of belts are the ones in systems that don't use them, or the freelancers (read: magazine martial artists). I think belts serve some very important purposes. First, they let you know approximately where you are in the school heirarchy. Granted, they are not foolproof methods, but you know about where you are and what you should be able to do.
Second, they are a recognizable symbol to non-practitioners. They may not understand many things about martial arts, but they understand belts and want to know what belt you are. Saying you don't use belts is like saying your school district doesn't use grades because they are not accurate indicators of progress. You know a better way?
Third, they provide tangible goals for students. What student wants to practice a martial art for two years and still be a white belt? Yes, they do get misused and reduced to commodities, but so does everything else. They are still useful.

 

[47MartialMan]

I went through a couple of belt ranking systems.
Back then:


There were no fees attached

There were no additional sub levels (like taping or stripes)

There were no sales counter selling items to dress up the rank

There were no signs or clubs formed (Like We are a Black Belt School-or "Black Belt Club")

I do agree that ranking has some pros, but it seems to be getting too excessive with cons.

 

[TigerWoman]

Belts and ranks show organization of curriculum in other words, and are signifiers of test results. I agree with MichTKD in that each rank, with its specific goals and requirements, shows what the student is capable of, not only to the teacher but to other students, family and community.

Frequently a white or yellow belt is leery of sparring a black belt so I tell them they are safer with black belts than red belts trying to prove something. But that changes as they gain skills and are tested on them. If I know someone who is a blue belt, can do a spin heel at head level on me because he has tested on that break, that is taken into consideration when sparring.

Also, I have found that having that set of goals over one's head makes you rise to the occasion, train harder, find your true grit. After all it was set up to be learned in increasing increments. First break-yellow-a step sidekick, second-orange-a hopping sidekick until you get to the seven breaks of black belt testing which include power, technique and difficulty. Testing for rank is not for a procrastinator or slacker. Capability-mental or physical-doesn't happen overnight. Beside the instructor has to approve the testing so he knows if a student is ready. And the student has to know that he has trained to his utmost best in preparation.

Ranks/belts are only as good as the school and the instructor giving them out. It is too bad that there are belt mills seemingly downgrading others hard work. Its even bad when some instructors water down their requirements. Its bad when there are politics involved in the testing. It doesn't do anyone a service to give a belt that isn't earned. But we have people in all sizes and shapes ages, weaknesses and strengths, testing and it remains subjective unless it is a result of a neutral testing board not one individual. In the end, we have to trust the instructor/master to tell us whether we earned it or not. And as human beings, we seem to want to know whether we measure up. TW

 

[47MartialMan]

Great pont TW, I realize its pros. But it seems to be the foremost or first desire of martial arts, from a beginners view, that ranking matters. Do you think that most of the ranking schools will still be opened without ranking? Why is ranking important over learning? Everytime someone mentions they study a martial art, the first reponse is usually a rank question.


Why is there to be a reward set up such as that with fees as attached to the reward?

The reward should be the learned skills and knowldege, not a rank. And how can one charge a fee for someone receiving a reward?

 

[masherdong]

I am all for ranks and belts. It gives the student little achievable goals while they study the MA's. Now, I do not believe that because they are a higher rank means that they are a better fighter. I have seen Yellow belts whoop up on Brown and Black Belts before. The belts and ranks just mean that they know more techniques and katas, now, what to do with them is another question.

 

[47MartialMan]

So one can state that the rank is a object of accomplishment?

 

[terryl965]

Well to answer, I too use a belt system but believe the system needs to be overhaul to accomadate the real worth of said belt. I do not have the answer on how to overhaul the system, I'm in TKD and between the USA tae kwon do and the ITF and the AAU they all have difference qualification to them. My school uses my system that I like. I would love to have a true system of ranking but ego's will never let that happen. Until then I will use my own and keep sending in to the Kukkiwon for Dan rank for those that would like to have them.

 

[47MartialMan]

I am all for ranks and belts. It gives the student little achievable goals while they study the MA's. Now, I do not believe that because they are a higher rank means that they are a better fighter. I have seen Yellow belts whoop up on Brown and Black Belts before. The belts and ranks just mean that they know more techniques and katas, now, what to do with them is another question.

So if the rank is associated with achievement. And these achievements cannot aid in other aspects, per defense. Has the rank benefited or degraded its meaning and reputation?