no touch knock out??

[Tgace]

What is the "martial value" of this ****?

 

[arnisador]

What is the "martial value" of this ****?

It's of great value, if you're attacked by one of your own students...slowly.

 

[shesulsa]

It's of great value, if you're attacked by one of your own students...slowly.

:lol:

 

[tradrockrat]

It's of great value, if you're attacked by one of your own students...slowly.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[shesulsa]

It's of great value, if you're attacked by one of your own students...slowly.

... or can convince your opponent to stand still in the same spot for at least 45 minutes....

 

[Xequat]

Come on ppko, it's hypnotic suggestion, nothing more.

I truly pity anyone who really believes this will ever work against an attacker....

Uh-huh. And I truly pity anyone who actually goes up against Dillman or any other decent member of DKI thinking that no-touch chi balls are their only method of fighting.

Hypnotic suggestion? That's just as ridiculous as you think the no-touch stuff is. I've never seen Carl Jung stop by a martial arts seminar with a stopwatch, saying "when I count to three, you will believe in magic and drop on your ***.' I'm with you too, because I've never been no-touch KO'd, but I feel like the point is simply research. I don't believe in it, but I don't disbelieve in it either. I don't know enough facts either way, and neither do you. I know that's frustrating, but you can't yet prove that it doesn't work or ever can't work. If we can discover how to channel chi across a room, then that will only make us better. If it doesn't work, then fine, but it's cool that someone is trying. Also, by making people believe in such things, it can potentially help in healing. DKI has a few top-notch healers in areas such as massage, acupressure, acupuncture, qi gong, etc., and this type of thing can help. I am not a DKI member and I don't plan on becoming one, but I have seen some pretty cool things with pressure points that I never would have dreamed of before getting started in MA, so my mind is open to anything that can't be disproven.

The other issue I have is with this attitude that somehow every martial artist is a representative of some greater calling and grand elite community. Just because Dillman might look insane doing tricks with chi doesn't mean that someone who's looking into joining a MA class for self-defense is now going to change his/her mibd because there's one guy that does weird movie-like stuff. If I'm looking at getting a new car, I don't change my mind and go buy a motorcycle instead because some comic-book freak tells me that his model of car can fly. I just find another dealer that I can agree with.

 

[Aegis]

Uh-huh. And I truly pity anyone who actually goes up against Dillman or any other decent member of DKI thinking that no-touch chi balls are their only method of fighting.

Very true, they probably have more than just this, but this is their most (in)famous technique, and it is the one which will come back and bite them in the *** over and over again when it continues to fail under controlled circumstances)

Hypnotic suggestion? That's just as ridiculous as you think the no-touch stuff is. I've never seen Carl Jung stop by a martial arts seminar with a stopwatch, saying "when I count to three, you will believe in magic and drop on your ***.'

Hypnotic suggestion is nothingmore than convincing the subconscious that sdomething is going to happen in response to a stimulus. You don't need to put someone into a trance using a swinging watch in order to do that, you just need to relax them and subtley convince them that something is going to happen. After watching it a few times, the unconscious mind becomes convinced that it will work and it generates an appropriate response. this is my current hypothesis anyway, and it certainly explains why those who go in thinking it won't work are unaffected: hypnosis cannot work if you don't want it to on some level, while real martial arts techniques will work regardless of what your opponent believes.

The other issue I have is with this attitude that somehow every martial artist is a representative of some greater calling and grand elite community. Just because Dillman might look insane doing tricks with chi doesn't mean that someone who's looking into joining a MA class for self-defense is now going to change his/her mibd because there's one guy that does weird movie-like stuff. If I'm looking at getting a new car, I don't change my mind and go buy a motorcycle instead because some comic-book freak tells me that his model of car can fly. I just find another dealer that I can agree with.

You probably know more about cars than the average complete beginner knows about martial arts. Often they assume that all arts are the same, and even if they don't, one bad experience really can put people off starting a martial art.

 

[arnisador]

And I truly pity anyone who actually goes up against Dillman or any other decent member of DKI thinking that no-touch chi balls are their only method of fighting.

George Dillman has some good stuff; his bunkai can be fascinating. I have definitely learned things from him.

Hypnotic suggestion? That's just as ridiculous as you think the no-touch stuff is.

It's stage magic. Ever seen a stage magician do a hypnotism act?

 

[Xequat]

OK, so let me get this straight. If it works, then it must be fake or have some equally unbelievable reason. But if it doesn't work, then Dillman's a fraud and he's destroying the good name of martial arts and causing all martial artists to be laughed at and have their homes repossessed because they rely on income that they would have gotten if they hadn't seen a failed energy experiment by someone in another martial arts organization. Wow, talk about being damned if you do and damned if you don't. It seems that no matter what he does, for some reason he's going to be condemned.


It's stage magic. Ever seen a stage magician do a hypnotism act?
I have. And it was absolutley nothing like anything I've ever seen Dillman do. The stage magician did it with some quasi-clinical psychological methods and the victims knew that they were being hypnotized.

Often they assume that all arts are the same, and even if they don't, one bad experience really can put people off starting a martial art.
True, but watching a seminar or video special hardly qualifies as a bad experience. When you say bad experience, I'm thinking broken bones. Look, when people are serious about martial arts training, they will call schools and attend classes to see what they're like. Everyone knows that somewhere out there is a useful self-defense, exercise, tournament, etc. style for them that will fit. Watching a video about one guy that tries something that looks crazy and sometimes fails will not change their mind about seeking help with a roundhouse kick. It will only make them less likely to join that particular organization. I'd like to pick the brains of some people who would have joined a BJJ or TKD class, but saw a DKI video or seminar and changed their mind, because I'm not sure those people exist.

 

[arnisador]

I've seen DKI students stand or kneel in front of a standing or kneeling student of theirs for about a full minute with a hand held in front of the student, with the student told to stand/sit still and concentrate on the hand, and that eventually he'd lose consciousness. Then, it happens (sometimes). I can't differentiate that from stage magic. It's basic hypnotism-for-performance material.

I've seen the "pulling people toward you in line" trick, too. Standard trick.

George Dillman has some good stuff. But the no-touch stuff is not for real. When the Amazing Randi believes it, I'll believe it.

 

[Xequat]

I've seen DKI students stand or kneel in front of a standing or kneeling student of theirs for about a full minute with a hand held in front of the student, with the student told to stand/sit still and concentrate on the hand, and that eventually he'd lose consciousness. Then, it happens (sometimes). I can't differentiate that from stage magic. It's basic hypnotism-for-performance material.

Oh yeah? OK, I see where you're coming from, then. I've just never seen or heard of that trick.

 

[Shaolinwind]

If he had gone to a real coffee shop instead of a McBeans like Starbucks, he would not have been able to move the line with his Chi.

OMG don't tell my wife that caffeine is stronger than chi, I'll never get her to kick the coffee habit! :boing2:

 

[Marginal]

Uh-huh. And I truly pity anyone who actually goes up against Dillman or any other decent member of DKI thinking that no-touch chi balls are their only method of fighting.

I think it has more to do with people being puzzled over why they're wasting so much of their time on goofy tricks vs the good stuff that's not totally useless in a confrontation.

I've read the older threads on the subject where DKI students claim that it's just a training exercise, but it may eventually develop into a viable technique. Still begs the question, what's it training?

 

[Seabrook]

Now i want to let everyone know that i have an open mine, so what i;m about to say i don't want anyone to think(there he's goes again)
now the other night my son called me into the living room to look at the tv show that was on, it was about the martial arts and the people in it.
"thats cool" but they had this segment with George Dillman(a good friend)
now my son turns around to me and said "is that true?"
what he was doing was telling people that he can knock them out without touching them, by using chi,i hope someone else saw this.
he had these people holding up this sheet, (he was on one side and the person he was to knock out was on the other side)
he stood there with his hands moving around and then you heard a kia
and the person on the other side was on the floor:idunno:
he also told the reporter that he was in a starbucks and the line was long so he moved them using his chi.
give me some feedback

now i'm not saying anything bad about
dilman's kempo.

I believe some people are vulnerable to this sort of stuff, and because they think they might fall, they do.

I wouldn't.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[Bigshadow]

I saw it, and even if true, how practical would it be? You would have to sit there and focus to knock the guy out, by that time someone can land 11 punches in my face.

That was my same thought about combat Ki (Jukokai?) or whatever that stuff is called. Just my opinion of course.

 

[MSUTKD]

No touch knock outs are Bullshido! Dillman is a showboat. Most of the people at his seminars are out of shape bozos.

 

[Agrosch]

Chi is pretty crazy stuff.
I've heard of a little guy take 2 guys on each arm trying to hold his arms apart... the little guy would focus and BAM the 4 guys were suddenly smashed together and then when he flung upen his arms they went flying. This was real, so my Sensei says. Very Crazy. But pushing people in a line, so many people? That makes it even more fake sounding then the idea at all..
My 2 cents.

 

[Odin]

okay all joking a side,has anyone thought of a scientific way of trying to prove if this possiable???
I remeber when i was young and i used to watch dudes break bricks with there pair hands and be amazed thinking 'dman he must be strong'....then my science teacher told me how it works and shattered the dream.It happened with bruce lee's 1inch punch its not so amaxing when youi know how it works.

As far as i know chi can be described as energy...i think it could be descibed as kenitic energy (sorry about the spelling its been a while) and a force in motion stays in motion until another force acts upon it.....which could mean an 'energy ball' could hit you and knock you out????no wait thats rubbish it wouldnt,how would the energy become a solid?energy chi energy does not exist in solid form since if it were how would it come out your hand??? im lost im going to leave now.dman molecules and atoms!!!!
wheres that bloody stephen hawkins bloke when you need him hey!!

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I have...at this moment...$400 dollars in my wallet that will go to the person who can knock me out without touching me.

No thrown objects, please.

The last time I made this offer it was last year about this time and it was $700...and that money went to a downpayment on my second condo. Nobody attempted to collect. This money is slated for a new camera...assuming nobody does a successful "no touch" on me.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Xequat]

okay all joking a side,has anyone thought of a scientific way of trying to prove if this possiable???

Well, trial and error are scientific. But I think I know what you're getting at, and I, of course, have no mechanical or physical explanation, just theories and experiments. There isn't proof either way because every person and every situation are different. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's been tried on me, but did not work. That doesn't mean it never will. There are other things to it, though. For example, there are controlling techniques using certain sounds (and no, I'm not talking about kiaijitsu and all that) and words that distract and stop attackers. I guess that could count as a no-touch technique. Blowing in someone's face to distract can be effective, as long as it's not the only thing you have. Maybe (just maybe) the no-touch chi stuff works similarly. Maybe it gets energy going a certain way which makes other techniques easier, or maybe it doesn't but DKI thinks it might, so they continue to experiment. Who knows? But I think it's obviously still in the research stage. That's the science, and I'm glad someone's doing it. I don't know the guy, but maybe he doesn't care if it works, but he just wants to know. But what if it can be proven to work? It will help in fighting and in healing, so I say, experiment away and thanks for trying.

I will say this, however; GD probably shouldn't record such things and say that he can do things that aren't 100%, but that's a different issue about marketing.