New to Wing Chun

[zepedawingchun]

@zep

I just got done saying that I was wrong what more do you want? Judging by your posts I think that your kung fu is bad. You don't hold the standard of Chinese Martial Arts and I wouldn't learn from you even if it was free and you came down here.

I don't care if you respect me or not. Just remember, if you want to be respected, you have to give it first. I'm not being disrespectful to you (yet), I'm just trying to make you understand the error in your belief of self teaching. Plus I don't want YOU to make a mockery of our belove martial arts system. There are too many bad Wing Chun posers out there already that our art suffers from it. We (as qualified instructors) who have put the time, effort, money, and hard sweat don't need you adding more insult to injury to the Wing Chun reputation. If you believe my kung fu is bad, fine. You're entitled to your opinion. You're welcome to come down to S.C. and find out before you pass judgement. I would be more than happy to show you the error in your belief.

I would never offer you instruction for free, people don't appreciate anything given for free, especially a young know it all like you. And what would you know about Chinese Martial Arts standards? You're just a young buck who thinks he can do it better than everyone who has passed before him. You act and sound like a punk with a bad attitude. I would never let you train in my kwoon due to your attitude and beligerance. Besides, my senior students would beat the crap out of you and tear you apart every chance they got for your disrespect and arrogance. You wouldn't want to stay very long. Respect is part of the kung fu training. If you think I'm being disrespectful to you it's because you're being an *** about your belief in your self teaching of Wing Chun. Remember, you get what you give.

I think that I can do better, but I do think that I have a level of comprehension that allows me to do things that other people rarely possess. Like I said, I'm a self-trainer in many things. To the point where teaching one-self is a unique skill all on it's own. Just think about it, if I can teach myself up to a certain level/standard, how far can I get with a proper education? I am constantly pushing myself farther and farther because I have to do it the hard way. I think that in this day and age, many people have forgotten what that means.

Oh please, quit building yourself up to be Superman. You haven't even stepped into a kwoon yet and you already think you can do better than everyone else. I've heard it all before, you're just one of thousands and thousands who have passed through martial arts training hall doors (but you haven't passed through any doors yet) and thought the same thing, that they are the exception and can pick up any skill they want like that. Just because everything you've done before this seemed easy for you, doesn't mean this will be. And believe me, it isn't. We have a saying in Wing Chun and it goes 'simple but not easy'.

Besides, a sifu would never want to teach you because your cup is not empty, it's too full of yourself. Arrogance gets you kicked (literally) out the door. Be humble and you get all there is to learn and more.

 

[IrishMonk]

opcorn:

 

[coffeerox]

Just remember, if you want to be respected, you have to give it first.

HAHAHHAHA you gone through life thinking that?

I would never offer you instruction for free, people don't appreciate anything given for free, especially a young know it all like you.

You fail in CMA.

You're just a young buck who thinks he can do it better than everyone who has passed before him.

I know who my heroes are. I stand by everything they believe in and the dispute is that you are nowhere as disciplined as they are. I don't respect you because of posts like these, you fail at martial arts and violate even Japanese standards.

You act and sound like a punk with a bad attitude.

I give what I get.

Besides, my senior students would beat the crap out of you and tear you apart every chance they got for your disrespect and arrogance. You wouldn't want to stay very long.

HAHAHAHHA are you serious? First of all, you failed at martial arts standards RIGHT THERE. Violence is never advocated for ANY REASON, especially trivial matters such as disrespect and arrogance.

Second of all, I'm not just walking into a trained group of martial artists. If I do, I'm coming out alive. You better hope I don't humiliate you and that's the least of your concerns.

you already think you can do better than everyone else

Cause I can. Prove that I can't. Who are you to make judgement about me when you don't even know me?

Besides, a sifu would never want to teach you because your cup is not empty, it's too full of yourself. Arrogance gets you kicked (literally) out the door. Be humble and you get all there is to learn and more.

My cup is just fine. Just because I disrespect you doesn't mean I'm not willing to accept new information. My whole being is about accepting new information. I can't self-teach otherwise if I'm rejecting useful information. You mistake arrogance with confidence. I know what blind arrogance is.

If you go back and read my posts, it's always been about encouraging people to step their game up, strive to be better than what you are, have an open mind and debate in an intellectual manner. I got nothing but bad criticisms, closed minds, personal attacks and more. People don't realize these things because they try to attack the posts instead of looking at it impartially and looking at the underlying meaning, not assuming the worst of a person. I don't need proof that you're a better martial artist than me, I KNOW I'm a better person than you are.

 

[MJS]

Hi all i am really intrested in wing chun and i am going to begin learning soon ... but i have heard from my friends who practice it that the local sifu doesnt really teach the ins and outs and all the names , me being the perfectionist that i am decided to research all i could about wing chun.

After 2 days of research i have concluded that the main cirriculum the sifu will be teaching is siu lim tao which is the first form i also managed to bring together all the forms and a list of EVERY SINGLE movement in the siu lim tao.

now i believe that i am probably better off learning at home.. as i know all the hand movements-
lap sau
pak sau
lan sau
gum sau
etc

and also the limb movements

so what i will be doing over the next couple of weeks/months is i will be practicing siu lim tao. then i will learn each and every hand movement and limb movement
once i have reached that stage i will find a partner and begin doing drills/ sticky hands etc

i know i will be advised that i should not train at home. but i am . lol so please no posts regarding that i should find a sifu. if you think i should find a sifu please rephrase ur reply in how i can improve the way i will be learning wing chun over the next few months

Sigh....this thread, just like the others will probably implode very soon. But, I'll give ya the benefit of the doubt, and assume you're asking a legit question and not trolling here, as thats against the forum rules that you agreed to when you joined up. Also seeing that there're countless threads on here discussing video/self teaching vs. learning from a qualified teacher, I'll say the same thing as I've said in those threads.....There is absolutely NO, I repeat NO way that you'll be good by learning from any other source other than a live teacher. I dont care what anyone says, its not going to happen. Find a teacher, and put in the blood, sweat and tears.

If you need help finding a school, ask here, use the internet, and I'm sure you'll find something. There are many people here who will give you some solid advice.

 

[MJS]

and what is a qualified Sifu?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/qualified

Lets see...someone who:

Understands the material inside and out.
Someone who can explain and teach the material.
Someone who has a solid lineage background.

Those are a few things.

I've seen WT 'technicians' be horrible teachers just as there are graduate assistants who teach better than professors do. I already see hints of bad kung fu just by listening to what's being said. Not saying your kung fu is bad, but of all the things I've heard that is my impression.

Did you see these people live in person or on video/dvd? Out of curiosity, what makes YOU qualified to determine wheter or not someone is bad or good? Did it ever occur to you that perhaps because you're trying to learn from tape, that you're having a hard time seeing things?

I ain't gonna lie, my WC sucks but at least I put myself out there, go balls out and apply what I know. That is what Kung Fu is, earning skill through hard work and practice. I bet those guys have never sparred a second in their life. Also those guys did not have what we have today. I admit that seminar videos only go so far, but things are advancing in this area where people are able to put together a more complete curriculum giving us exactly what we need to train.

Translation: You and some friends get together on a Saturday afternoon, drink some koolaid, watch some instructional tapes, then run out to the backyard, and LARP what you all just saw.

Training the hard way (meaning going full speed/power, applying technique under pressure) is the only option I have at the moment until my move to Mesa is finalized and might be able to attend a few WC classes in that area once I get some income.

Sigh...so I see you're still using this line. IIRC, didn't Geezer offer to give you a bike or train with you? Did you take him up on that offer? Then again, you could always take the suggestions that I gave you, which were to:

Get your **** together before you worry about training.
Look at other arts.
Have someone transport you to a school or training group.
Have someone come to your house to work with you, either privately or in a group setting. And no, I'm not talking about just anybody, I'm talking about QUALIFIED people!

Times are changing. You either move along with it or resist it and keep rejecting it every chance you have. Find what is wrong with online training and find a solution. Not be a part of the problem.

You're right, times are changing...people are getting way to lazy! Instead of busting their ***, they take the easy, lazy way out. Whats wrong with online training....if you can't figure it out, I dont know what to tell ya.

No doubt, you'll get all pissy and huffy with what I said. Sorry if I dont sugar coat things for you.

 

[Nabakatsu]

I can be pig headed to the 100th degree.
Before I started attending classes, I thought to myself, There is no way in hell I can't do this by myself, and so on and so forth. I figured my over-training could compensate for a lack of real instruction. After I started attending classes, it was the biggest eye-opener I could have imagined. Regardless of having some natural physical raw talent, and a good work ethic I still sucked horribly! Wing Tzun is just weird, you need to be corrected a thousand times on minute little things that you and other folks just won't be able to tell. An experienced sifu if necessary... Best of luck!

 

[matsu]

ive been reading this post shaking my head in disbelief.
coffeerox..... i have no problem with you doing your thing your way, i would even have a modicum of respect for you in doing just that.... if you didnt behave on here like such an A hole.
you,..... correct me if im wrong....
have never been instructed in wing chun by an experienced practioner?

have never touched hands with an experienced practioner?

have even witnessed a class in the real world and not jsut in cyberspace?

then you seriuosly do not know if what you are doing has any real correlation to what is REAL wing chun!!
because you only have your cyber research to compare it to, and your jkd mates who have been trainng for just a year (i believe)
i have been training for just over two yrs and i failed my form in my last grading..... every move was correct but the emphasis, the ging, the speed the tension was not as it should...if i am being corrected by a sifu who is considered one of the foremost in the uk, how the hell do you actually think that you can perform slt correctly, learning with no feedback from cyber vids and books.

you have a real chip on your shoulder about the people on here disrespecting you and treating you like an idiot,yet your behaviour just re inforces the fact that you know very little of wht you speak and you are just repeating parrot fashion what you have read somewhere and HAVE NO REAL EXPERIENCE IN WING CHUN to be able to do so!
please do not try to quote lineage or techniques from a certain sifu because you do notknow wing chun!!! end of!!!
quote you......
Respect has to be earned and he has not yet earned it. He may have experience, but there are things that I see in his character (through his posts) that tell me he is a bad practitioner and not deserving to practice Chinese Martial Arts. Many western practitioners have forgotten what it means to practice martial arts and it goes beyond the fighting aspect.

Keep in mind that people come from all walks of life and have strengths in many areas. One of mine is online communities. I've been doing this for so long that it doesn't matter who the person is, I can psychoanalyze that person by what they say. I've had a tough time and I've previously received death threats from locals even. I had to learn how people think online.

what a complete load of complete *****.....you honeslty believe what you typed there??
you know how people thinkonline....? thts an amazing skill,how come you do not earn a fortune with such a skill?
you have hd death threats? frankly i,m not surpised, your attitude would possibly incite the dalai lama to violence lol
you cannot see someones character online you silly silly naive sellf absorbed and arrogant young man and it is statements like that,which makes me sad for you and why ths will be my only post when you get involved with a thread.
i for one cannot believe you have had the opportunity to train with someone from here who offered you almost everything and yet you did nothing, and then you spout crap!!
and guys...... dont feed the troll!!
i,m outa here
matsu

 

[Grenadier]

Self-training will not get you very far at all. At the best, you'll accidentally discover one or two techniques that you *might* be able to pull off with some semblence of consistency. At the worst, you're going to be performing techniques that use incorrect mechanics, and could hurt you (joints, tendons, ligaments, etc).

Martial arts are complex systems, even the ones that are simple. You need to understand body mechanics, timing, etc., all of which are nigh impossible to comprehend sufficiently without competent instruction.

There are some who say "Well, someone had to learn how to box from the start," and I won't disagree, but boxing as we know of it in modern times (say, even as old as 1900) was a cumulation of self-discoveries of how a human body can be used to punch with more efficiency and power. This took many, many years (or decades, or even centuries), and not the handful of years that self-training aspirants would think that they need.

Furthermore, one can't learn what it feels like to be attacked, just by self-training. As much as people watch "Rocky" and think that they can just go in there, take a slew of punches, use their own heads as blocking shields, and then deliver KO punches, it just doesn't work that way.

With a competent, experienced teacher in boxing, one could learn in 1 year what would have taken 100+ years of self-training (and I'm being VERY conservative with that 100 year figure).




In the end, is self-training useless? Not at all, provided that one gets live, competent instruction first. Once the practitioner has a base level of knowledge, then he can use supplements such as books and videos, to help refine those techniques. Think of those things as nice siding or paint for a house. They're really not that useful unless you've built the house first...

 

[Nabakatsu]

Incite the dalai lama to violence, That just may have made my morning.

 

[MJS]

Hi all i am really intrested in wing chun and i am going to begin learning soon ... but i have heard from my friends who practice it that the local sifu doesnt really teach the ins and outs and all the names , me being the perfectionist that i am decided to research all i could about wing chun.

Out of curiosity, how long have your friends been training? I ask this because its very possible that if they are new, that the reason why the inst. is not teaching the 'ins and outs' is because those people are not ready for them yet. In other words, you gotta walk before you run. Start with the basics and advance up.

 

[MJS]

He HAS found a teacher. Your comment had no relevance to what he was asking.

Actually it is relevant to the thread, because if you took the time to read the rest of the OPs post, you'd notice that he then made mention of home study, thus the reason why the replies followed as such.

 

[coffeerox]

because you only have your cyber research to compare it to, and your jkd mates who have been trainng for just a year (i believe)

Who happens to have been trained by a former Wing Chun teacher.

if i am being corrected by a sifu who is considered one of the foremost in the uk, how the hell do you actually think that you can perform slt correctly, learning with no feedback from cyber vids and books.

Because I pay attention to the minor minor details. I grab new concepts about the form as it slowly builds together into a better SNT. It's constantly improving from when I copied the movements, to actually understanding little by little what these movements mean, and how they are practiced. I practice the form almost on a daily basis, doing it slow to understand the relationship between what I am doing, and the body structure.

No one who has studied WC for 1 or even 2 years can get SNT perfect, it's a lifetime accomplishment. Chu Shong Tin for example did the form hundreds of times just to understand one thing, and then doing it more and more over his lifetime to master it. He is called King of Siu Nim Tao for a reason.

The only person here who have seen my SNT is geezer, so PM him and ask him what he thought of it as I can't post a video. He did make some corrections, feed me some new info and I still practice it to this day. That is exactly what I'm talking about in my first paragraph. I'm constantly learning new things and gradually my form is getting better and better. It is my ability to absorb new information that allows me to get better. It's *my* unique ability so don't feel bad that I'm able to do this.

Also want to add that what we may do differently is the research. I'm constantly watching seminars, reading articles, I just simply have more information than you do. That's not my fault that you did not supplement your training which is what this material does. You have a sifu, +1 years ahead of me in an actual class and I turn out to do the form better than you do lol.

you have a real chip on your shoulder about the people on here disrespecting you and treating you like an idiot,yet your behaviour just re inforces the fact that you know very little of wht you speak and you are just repeating parrot fashion what you have read somewhere and HAVE NO REAL EXPERIENCE IN WING CHUN to be able to do so!

I do not care about being respected. One of the martial art maxims is to be humble. I do have a problem with people treating me like an idiot. Like I said, I may suck at Wing Chun, but I am not a moron. You don't know me.

what a complete load of complete *****.....you honeslty believe what you typed there??

why else would I typed it? This skill isn't really valuable online, except be a community manager who does this on my off-time and all it does really is manipulate who I want or avoiding/treating conflicts.

you cannot see someones character online you silly silly naive sellf absorbed and arrogant young man

You can't just say something about somebody else and turn out to be true. You have no way to prove it and these posts aren't going to help you b/c you don't know me.

I know what I can do and I've proved it time and time again. I don't need you telling me I can't read people online. I sure the hell can and will continue to do so.

 

[IrishMonk]

Coffeerox... why don't you silence those who oppose your self training by posting a vid of yourself displaying your ability to pic up all the subtle points of WC from books and online vids ??

Lets see your SNT form... and its application with your friends.

 

[MJS]

Who happens to have been trained by a former Wing Chun teacher.

How long, out of curiosity, did they train for? I ask this because further down, you stated that a 1-2yr student can't get SNT perfect.

Because I pay attention to the minor minor details. I grab new concepts about the form as it slowly builds together into a better SNT. It's constantly improving from when I copied the movements, to actually understanding little by little what these movements mean, and how they are practiced.

No one who has studied WC for 1 or even 2 years can get SNT perfect, it's a lifetime accomplishment. Chu Shong Tin for example did the form hundreds of times just to understand one thing, and then doing it more and more over his lifetime to master it. He is called King of Siu Nim Tao for a reason.

The only person here who have seen my SNT is geezer, so PM him and ask him what he thought of it as I can't post a video. He did make some corrections, feed me some new info and I still practice it to this day. That is exactly what I'm talking about in my first paragraph. I'm constantly learning new things and gradually my form is getting better and better. It is my ability to absorb new information that allows me to get better. It's *my* unique ability so don't feel bad that I'm able to do this.

Dont you see what you just said? You said that you mimicked the forms on dvd, and geezer made corrections. This shows that the fine points were missed on video. So if you never trained with geezer, you'd most likely be making mistakes, missing info, keypoints, etc., until the day came, if it ever does, that you get yourself to a real teacher to train with.

I do not care about being respected. One of the martial art maxims is to be humble. I do have a problem with people treating me like an idiot. Like I said, I may suck at Wing Chun, but I am not a moron. You don't know me.

As I've said before...you seem to think that its everyone else, but have you looked at yourself? Ex: If you post foolish things, chances are, you'll get foolish replies. To prove this, use the search function for this forum, and find other posts in which people have asked about video learning. See the replies and then compare them to this thread. Chances are they'll be pretty similar.

why else would I typed it? This skill isn't really valuable online, except be a community manager who does this on my off-time and all it does really is manipulate who I want or avoiding/treating conflicts.

Hmm...you most likely typed it because its something that you heard, saw, believe in, etc. Then again, there're people who claim to have seen Elvis walking around, and that've seen strange green men, but should we believe them too? LOL!

You can't just say something about somebody else and turn out to be true. You have no way to prove it and these posts aren't going to help you b/c you don't know me.

I know what I can do and I've proved it time and time again. I don't need you telling me I can't read people online. I sure the hell can and will continue to do so.

You're right, I dont know you, however, people are going on and forming opinions of your posts, so......if thats any indicator, well....

I think the issue here is, is that you came here, started a thread on video learning, because you thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, didnt get the replies YOU wanted to hear, so instead of accepting that, you got pissed off at everyone.

 

[coffeerox]

How long, out of curiosity, did they train for? I ask this because further down, you stated that a 1-2yr student can't get SNT perfect.

Going on two years now. However 2 years in a class to you guys is superior to 2 years out of class studying and practicing by myself, so...........

This shows that the fine points were missed on video.

But the fine points were shown on video, it was an honest mistake on my part for missing it. I went back and looked at the reference forms and there it was. That doesn't mean I missed EVERY fine point however.

It might've taken a bit longer, but a correction would've been made at some point whether it would be months or years. Like I said, I'm learning new things every day. I don't make corrections just by watching though. I need to pair it up with written reference first.

My suspicion is that I picked up on total relaxation practice and applied it to the first section of the form and thus, my Wu Sao being in a completely relaxed state (but not straight)

 

[MJS]

Going on two years now. However 2 years in a class to you guys is superior to 2 years out of class studying and practicing by myself, so...........

Yes, I feel that classroom learning is better than video. Now, if you were use video as a reference, thats difference. Ex: I train in Kenpo. Lets say that I moved to an area, where the closest Parker Kenpo school, was 8hrs away. So, I make trips every other month to train with the teacher, but in the meantime, I buy Larry Tatums dvd set, to help with my review of what I already know.

Then again, that is only a tool, for the simple fact that the school that I would be training at is Planas lineage. Huk Planas trained with Parker, however, it'd be foolish to think that every Parker student moves the same. We're not robots, so what I may be doing, could differ.

But the fine points were shown on video, it was an honest mistake on my part for missing it. I went back and looked at the reference forms and there it was. That doesn't mean I missed EVERY fine point however.

It might've taken a bit longer, but a correction would've been made at some point whether it would be months or years. Like I said, I'm learning new things every day. I don't make corrections just by watching though. I need to pair it up with written reference first.

My suspicion is that I picked up on total relaxation practice and applied it to the first section of the form and thus, my Wu Sao being in a completely relaxed state (but not straight)

So, when its question time, what do you do? You're going thru the dvd, learning a form, a tech, whatever from it, and you're confused on something. Now what? Try to figure it out yourself, ask online, etc?

 

[coffeerox]

So, when its question time, what do you do? You're going thru the dvd, learning a form, a tech, whatever from it, and you're confused on something. Now what? Try to figure it out yourself, ask online, etc?

I'll ask the question and usually it gets answered by a knowledgeable teacher or practitioner. A bit of humor here, I do have to be on the down low about self-training LOL

 

[MJS]

I'll ask the question and usually it gets answered by a knowledgeable teacher or practitioner.

Do you have live access to this teacher? If so, is it possible to train with him?

A bit of humor here, I do have to be on the down low about self-training LOL

And why do you say that? LOL

 

[coffeerox]

Do you have live access to this teacher? If so, is it possible to train with him?

Teacher(s) and unfortunately I don't. If I had the money I'd make the trips but not possible at this moment.

 

[Rion]

I was not going to get involved in this thread but am pissed off at how many people can comment on a thread just to moan and argue like a bunch of old women when i have been waiting for a day for someone to comment on my thread and give me alittle bit of advice about the question i posted. I thought thats why we were here to help eachother out.