New fence in Mexico

[mrhnau]

Looks like Bush just signed some legislation to construct a fence along the Mexican border. Looks like 700 miles of the 2100 mile border.

Might be a step in the right direction, though I wish it had happened a few years earlier, and not just before the election. Timing seems a bit dubious. Still, I'm glad to see them doing -something- about illigel immigration...

Your thoughts and opinions?

 

[Monadnock]

I think it's good. I was watching the Colbert Report the other night, and he suggested a large wall, a few thousand miles long that could be visible from outer space.........

Gee, where have we seen that before?

 

[CoryKS]

Looks like Bush just signed some legislation to construct a fence along the Mexican border. Looks like 700 miles of the 2100 mile border.

Might be a step in the right direction, though I wish it had happened a few years earlier, and not just before the election. Timing seems a bit dubious. Still, I'm glad to see them doing -something- about illigel immigration...

Your thoughts and opinions?

People can debate whether the fence will be effective. We can debate whether it's the right thing to do. What I resent is other countries trying to tell us we don't have the right to do it.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

People can debate whether the fence will be effective. We can debate whether it's the right thing to do. What I resent is other countries trying to tell us we don't have the right to do it.

Gotta agree with you on that!

I don't think it'll be very effective though. They'll just go elsewhere like they did when they fenced the area around San Diego.

Jeff

 

[michaeledward]

I think it is just what the world needs, ... a New Iron Curtin.

It is a ridiculous, ineffective, political showboat move. Not nearly as bad as the Federal government throwing Billions of dollars to Ohio teachers to buy their votes (Karl Rove is seeing 'special polls, yeah right), but it is a stunt, none the less.

I never thought I would ever miss Ronald Reagan.

Mr. Bush, Don't even think about building this wall.

 

[Monadnock]

Speaking of illegals, I got this light-hearted email:

Subject: Becoming Illegal (From a Maryland resident to his Senator)

Honorable Senators,

As a native Marylander and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue Service, I am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department of Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming an illegal alien and they referred me to you.

My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to illegal alien stem from the bill which was recently passed by the Senate and for which you voted. If my understanding of this bill's provisions is accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for five years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine and income taxes for three of the last fi ve years. I know a good deal when I see one and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone figures it out.

Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay taxes every year so I'm excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of taxes in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is there any way that I can apply to be illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and my family because we paid heavy taxes in 2004 and 2005.

Additionally, as an illegal alien I could begin using the local emergency room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying premiums for medical insurance, my accountant figures I could save almost $10,000 a year.

Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter would receive preferential treatment relative to her law school applications, as well as "in-state" tuition rates for many colleges throughout the United States for my son.

Lastly, I understand th at illegal status would relieve me of the burden of renewing my driver's license and making those burdensome car insurance premiums.
This is very important to me given that I still have college age children driving my car.

If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become illegal (retroactively if possible) and copies of the necessary forms, I would be most appreciative. Thank you for your assistance.

Your Loyal Constituent,

Kind of funny, but then it's not. I think it's pretty easy to renounce citizenship here though isn't it?

 

[CoryKS]

Kind of funny, but then it's not. I think it's pretty easy to renounce citizenship here though isn't it?

I don't think so. Seems like there was this guy running around at the start of the war who went to be a human shield for Saddam Hussein. Ex-Marine who kept trying to renounce his citizenship, and the government kept saying no.

 

[mrhnau]

I think it is just what the world needs, ... a New Iron Curtin.

Well, not exactly the same... the Iron Curtain was oriented towards keeping people in. This is more designed to keep people out, or at least make them follow the legal process for entry.

It is a ridiculous, ineffective, political showboat move.

not ridiculous. too early to tell if ineffective. Time will tell that one. Political showboat move? Perhaps. I'd have less doubts about that if it happened 1.5 years ago. I'm leaning towards it being politically motivated.

I never thought I would ever miss Ronald Reagan.

I miss him alot, even before this mess. Good president

 

[Monadnock]

I don't think so. Seems like there was this guy running around at the start of the war who went to be a human shield for Saddam Hussein. Ex-Marine who kept trying to renounce his citizenship, and the government kept saying no.

Yea, I think you have to go live in another country for like 10 years or so, not coming back to the US and taking another citizenship up over there. Something like that...

 

[Monadnock]

not ridiculous. too early to tell if ineffective. Time will tell that one. Political showboat move? Perhaps. I'd have less doubts about that if it happened 1.5 years ago. I'm leaning towards it being politically motivated.

Nope, it isn't. What it will do is get all the Dem's scrambling to find a way to denounce it during this political season. And denouncing it looks weak on nationalization and security.

As for practicality, someone's gotta watch it. A fence is no good without some towers. As for the length, I guess tehy only had to cover the Californian border Seems to be where they all want to go anyways.

 

[mrhnau]

Yea, I think you have to go live in another country for like 10 years or so, not coming back to the US and taking another citizenship up over there. Something like that...

you can have dual citizenship actually...

 

[Ping898]

I am not entirely sure how 700 miles of fence on a 2000 mile border is going to help much...I think the money could be better spent and more effectively spent elsewhere, plus last I heard I don't even think this bill Bush signed included full funding for the fence...wonder where that money will come from...
Plus I got ESPN so can predict the future and tell you that it'll cost more than estimated....:uhyeah:

I find it all amusing especially cause when I used to drive through El Paso, TX there was this big billboard that said "It's a border not a barrier"

 

[crushing]

President Bush doesn't want an effective policy to keep the cheap illegal labor out. The fence is to get people to believe the opposite.

Also, the media continues to refuse to differentiate between illegal aliens and legal immigrants making people opposed to illegal border crossings out to be xenophobes, which will be helpful in getting out the vote against those that appear to want to have an effective border security (such as those that are for a fence).

 

[michaeledward]

Well, not exactly the same... the Iron Curtain was oriented towards keeping people in. This is more designed to keep people out, or at least make them follow the legal process for entry.

. . . . .

I miss him alot, even before this mess. Good president

All fences and walls work in two directions. No matter what attitude the person building the wall desires, it works both ways.

I believe the line in Mending Walls reads something like:

"Do we ever ask what we are fencing out, and what we are fencing in"


And Ronald Reagan was a disaster of a President. History will benefit Reagan legacy because George W. Bush followed him. Compared to Bush, every president looks acceptable.

 

[CoryKS]

All fences and walls work in two directions. No matter what attitude the person building the wall desires, it works both ways.

Therefore, what? All walls are an Iron Curtain? Or are you saying that this wall will keep millions of Americans from escaping to Mexico?

 

[Kacey]

The problem with a wall or a fence - and I think this would be more like the Great Wall of China than the Iron Curtain - is that people will continue to find a way in as long as there is incentive for them to do so that outweighs the potential risk and consequences. Unless and until that changes, no wall, fence, or law will be effective, and we will continue to pour resources into preventing illegal immigration that could better be used elsewhere - for the benefit of current citizens, instead of the detriment of illegal aliens.

 

[michaeledward]

Therefore, what? All walls are an Iron Curtain? Or are you saying that this wall will keep millions of Americans from escaping to Mexico?

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88/frost-mending.html

My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines,

and here's the exact language ..

Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,

Who knew that Robert Frost so hated America, eh?

EDIT

And I just re-read the ending, and was struck anew by its power . . .

He moves in darkness as it seems to me~
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father's saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, "Good fences make good neighbors."

. . . . and the power is not the catchphrase so many quote when looking to this art.

END EDIT

 

[crushing]

Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,

Thank you for finding the poem and posting parts of it. I took the link too and didn't see any reference to gateways that would allow passage between the neighbors properties, other than gaps caused by spilling boulders.

Anyway, the border patrol is a sort of wall or fence that also keeps people out (I suppose they keep people in that may be thinking of escaping to Mexico too). Do you think the border patrol may be offensive to someone, and should border patrols cease? Don't they serve pretty much the same purpose as the fence?

 

[FearlessFreep]

We are all here through immigration in some sense.

Seems kinda hyppcrtitcally cruel to say "we were lucky enough to get here ahead of you and now we don't want you to follow"

Seems kinda silly to say "walking from point A to point B is now illegal"

However, if you are going to be part of the community and enjoy the benefits of the community, you need to be part of the community in paying for those benefits. The borders shouldn't be protected by fences and manned by guards; they should be protected by turnstiles and manned by civil servants handing out SSAN cards.

 

[donald]

I say build it. We need to add better security measures to this area. I don't see why anyone would be against this? If you choose to come in legally, it would be a non issue. If you chose to come in by nefarious means, it would be a big issue. Again I say, law abiding citizen=no issue. To the potential lawbreaker=huge issue.