Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Sir, the exact wording may in fact be critical.
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Sir, the exact wording may in fact be critical.
Aren't you a former ITF judge?
Ah, but it may be. Context and wording matters.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
I am credentialed as a "Class A" umpire and have judged world Championships in St. Petersburg Russia, -19967, Rimini Italy 2001, and a world cup in Orlando - I think it was 2002.
And North Korea is yet to lose team championships in forms or has this finally happened?
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
I have no idea since I have been out of the loop since 2004 or so. Further, what if anything that might have to do with mistakes on a video eludes me. Also, since 2002 NK has been in it's own ITF that tends to skew things.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Well, they one quite often. For those of us old enough to remember the Olympics when East Germany and other socialist countries dominated it's tough for amateurs to compete with Government sponsored systems where people are recruited by the 10s of thousands and their full time job is to train. Then from those 10s of thousands you get the couple dozen elite athletes. I recall a referee meeting before the 1997 Championships where a 4th Dan from NK was used as an example and he did patterns which were critiqued by the Seniors and I am thinking "Heck, looked pretty damn good to me." He went on to win the gold. Another NK athlete took the Gold for the Turning (roundhouse) Kick set at 9'7". They bordered on the superhuman. But then again that is what helped General Choi spread TKD in the 1950's and 1960's . He recruited top talent nicknamed the Korean Supermen and they went on demo tours.
Ehm... General Chois demo team in the 50-70s consisted of South Koreans...
Not "often". When you retired in 2004 from ITF judging, they were undefeaten in forms since they first entered in the 80s. That's why I was curious if this streak has ever ended.
However, Russia is actually beating them in free sparring these days at the World Championships.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Sir, - Again - comprehension issues. When a government funded program allows recruitment of thousands or 10's of thousands of top notch athletes and full time training, the ability to develop "Super Humans" is much easier than when you have self funded part time athletes who may choose a certain activity. Same idea.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Sir, are you no changing some comparison, however irrelevant from Pattern to Sparring competition?
Not just these days. I know the Russians won team sparring in 1997, (I know because I was there. ) There may have been other team sparring winners as well. No point in checking on it. and NK individual competitors did not always take the gold in sparring. So what is your point in highlighting the NK athletes success? Is it that somehow they would produce a flawless video?
I was refering team competitons in both forms and sparring.
In individual sparring, Thomaz Barada beat them all the time.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Post # 652 you state " Not "often"
. "When you retired in 2004 from ITF judging, they were undefeated in forms since they first entered in the 80s"
So are you now claiming undefeated in "TEAM" forms and sparring or just forms?
Of course you know why "... they first entered in the 1980's"
I still have no idea what this has to do with the discussion.
Team forms only. I asked question, no need do get defensive about it. I thought you were a judge every event and could give some insight on the evolution of judging
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Events I judge included:
Specialty breaking, Individual Patterns, Team Patterns and individual sparring. It's been a long time but I don't recall for certain if I judged team sparring. Pretty certain I did not ever get assigned to power breaking.
Judging has changed a lot. from simple stuff to like having each judge keep track of warnings and minus points to having score table do it, from scoring patterns in several categories to head to head patterns and just designating winner to I believe some sort of electronic scoring now for sparring. (We used pencil and paper. )
How do you decide between two competitors doing form with neither of them making any mistakes, and deliveries being very similar? Did you guys have an additional citeria that settled it? Like some small detail?
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Knowing I had some top notch competitors with few flaws I noted where they started their pattern and if there were no other deciding factors the one closes to their startingg point would win. They were seldom "equal" in this factor. I cannot speak for others.
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