New anti Sine Wave pattern deliveries on Youtube

[Earl Weiss]

Very curious that he would still show roots from something he did 10-15 years ago....

Not curious at all. Old habits die hard.(Guess how I know) As General Choi would teach "You need to teach your students correctly from the beginning. If they make a mistake for one day, it takes a day to fix. If they make a mistake for a month, it takes a month to fix, if they make a mistake for a year - Hopeless."

 

[Earl Weiss]

I know that Park later returned but that's irrelevant to the point.

No, it's relevant because he sat thru at least 2 IICs I am aware of learning from General Choi.

 

[Flying Crane]

That has nothing to do with anything. It was in response to the fact that Weiss is right and I'm wrong because he has more experience, according to your logic

Enjoy your stay.

 

[oftheherd11]

Sir, if you think there is a difference between the "Twist" and "Jerk' so be it Please explain what you think he meant by "Jerk" .

Oh my soul, be nice and silent.

 

[Acronym]

No, it all flows together It's not an either or plus it depend on the prior position. If you are in a half facing position and then punch the hip only moves from the half to the full face position. Similarly if stepping the rear leg hip side is slightly back and becomes full facing. If in sitting stance as you know punches begin with slight rearword motion and the hip moves rearward with it. You are creating a false premise to support your point.

Rearward motion in L stance is not turning the hip and abdomen towards the target but rather the opposite. Same in the sitting stance. This also happens after 1 and is covered in (3), which in boxing is known as telegraphing (but not necessarily bad ).

You get into position (1), then 2 and 3 follows.

 

[Acronym]

Not curious at all. Old habits die hard.(Guess how I know) As General Choi would teach "You need to teach your students correctly from the beginning. If they make a mistake for one day, it takes a day to fix. If they make a mistake for a month, it takes a month to fix, if they make a mistake for a year - Hopeless."

But the issue isn't even that...Park didn't know knee spring at all when leaving Choi. When he returned it was called Sine Wave and he did eventually adopt it in his school, as far as I know.

Does this disprove that Choi was toying around with the idea in his head? No of course not. But to claim that it was part of ITF TKD in the early 70s is very questionable if his own demo team weren't introduced to it.

 

[Acronym]

While we are on the subject of Jong Soo Park, his display here is 100% TaeKwonDo.

You might label his punches in tuls as Karate (the ITF splinter groups would call it traditional TaeKwondo). but I see his kicking by this point as fully integrated TaeKwonDo mechanics.

You can see Parks postures and hip alignment in the 65 encyclopedia, and it's not pretty.. Very bad in fact... A modern-day student kicks better passed yellow belt.

Then he became a monster in the 70s..

 

[Earl Weiss]

B
Does this disprove that Choi was toying around with the idea in his head? No of course not. .

Well at last you acknowledge it doesn't prove or disprove anything. Of course I can only speak from experience.

 

[Earl Weiss]

.

You get into position (1), then 2 and 3 follows.

No sir, it all happens at the same time.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I will refer you to Yeo Chin Huat, who when asked how he used to punch in forms prior to SW illustrated a hip twist. He did that to a user you are currently debating.

To be clear I know nothing about this person other than what has been posted. I also don't know if he stated what you say. if he misspoke, or if the recollection is accurate. What I do know is based upon communications issues apparent on this thread all of the above are open to question. Which does not mean I question the knowledge or experience of Yeo Chin Huat, only that I have requested more information.

 

[Acronym]

No sir, it all happens at the same time.

That is not how SW is usually performed and would entail one hip twist for cocking and another up on impact.

 

[Acronym]

To be clear I know nothing about this person other than what has been posted. I also don't know if he stated what you say. if he misspoke, or if the recollection is accurate. What I do know is based upon communications issues apparent on this thread all of the above are open to question. Which does not mean I question the knowledge or experience of Yeo Chin Huat, only that I have requested more information.

GM Yeo in addition to the merits mentioned was also appointed technical advisor by General Choi.

 

[Earl Weiss]

That is not how SW is usually performed and would entail one hip twist for cocking and another up on impact.

Sorry, I do not understand the above explanation. Can you elaborate?

 

[Earl Weiss]

GM Yeo in addition to the merits mentioned was also appointed technical advisor by General Choi.

Link to source please.

 

[Acronym]

Link to source please.

I don't have that information available. You would have to email him about the specifics.

This might be of interest

 

[Ivan]

Unfortunately not very good, which seems to be a trend.

Sine wave is an up and down movement that was added into ITF patterns somewhere in the late 70s, early 80s to make it different from the Karate katas. It telegraphs the techniques and serves no no purpose other than to be different from Karate katas. It is not used in mitts practice or sparring.

So this is a branch that does it the old way, but not very good. There is no hip twist to the punches and the overall form is mediocre.

What's interesting to me about the sine wave theory is how it completely differs to the theory I was taught by my old Shorinji Kempo Sensei. We use this same Sine Wave Motion in my ITF Club, but if I am honest, I despise it:

It feels very unnatural for me to bob up and down after almost every technique or movement in a form. In contrast, Shorinji Kempo emphasised on keeping the top of your head at a consistent level regardless of your movement, so when we stepped forwards we would bring our feet together half way through the step, and maintain an odd squatting position - then we proceeded.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

What's interesting to me about the sine wave theory is how it completely differs to the theory I was taught by my old Shorinji Kempo Sensei. We use this same Sine Wave Motion in my ITF Club, but if I am honest, I despise it:

It feels very unnatural for me to bob up and down after almost every technique or movement in a form. In contrast, Shorinji Kempo emphasised on keeping the top of your head at a consistent level regardless of your movement, so when we stepped forwards we would bring our feet together half way through the step, and maintain an odd squatting position - then we proceeded.

I think you included a bad image link here, just fyi.

 

[Ivan]

I think you included a bad image link here, just fyi.

Sorry. It seems to be working for me. I will sort it out if I can.

 

[Acronym]

Here is another pre knee spring/Sine Wave representation.

His walking stance is lower than what you would normally see in ITF. His Round kicks are too squared for my liking but this varies between individuals. There can be such a thing as too upright!

It seems most US splinter groups did not adopt Sine Wave.

 

[Earl Weiss]

That is not how SW is usually performed and would entail one hip twist for cocking and another up on impact.

Perhaps therein lies the difference. and explains why we are talking past each other. Problem being "Cocking" or rearward motion of the hip and then moving it forward. This is not needed if the position prior to the punch is half face. The hip is already back and only needs to move forward to full face. Now, if the Hips are full facing, the SW motion is a slight relax / down. then up and down to the beginning of the motion. During - not sperate from or before or after- the initial relax / down and then up he hip moves slightly rearward and from the peak to the final position coordinated with the extension of the arm the hip moves forward.