Myth Busters

[Ray B]

It looks more utilitarian and it makes sense that they were
wore in the fields, a little like the American Cowboy's chaps.
My understanding of the typical hakama was that it hid the
footwoork of the swordsman. A farmer doesn't need to hide his feet.

Thanks again!

 

[Jdokan]

With regards to aged obi: I have this a measure of the individual as it relates to how much they work out...To the point I have heard HORROR stories of BB's intentionally trying to age their belt by excessive washing even rubbing against trees to break down the fibers....

Looking at the other issue of forms vs effectiveness....One of the toughest fighters I personally had the pleasure of exchanging with didn't have the "greatest/prettiest" looking form....I try to rememeber basic engineering processes...form follows function........ Now that doesn't mean I am not one of the pickiest Instructors...I used to drive students crazy because I wanted things done the absolute best possible...angles, acccuracy, speed, etc....
for what it's worth....
Peace,
Jeff

 

[Boomer]

form follows function

I wonder...does it?
I suppose the term "function" has changed thru the years with martial sport and so.

The traditional kata I practise seem to follow function, but I wonder about the ones with backflips and music.....

 

[Victor Smith]

Boomer,

While Hidy Ochiai was using back flips in his Washin-ryu forms back in the 70's and music began being attached to forms in the 70's too (Jhoon Rhee's Bethovan's 5th form and Gary Michank's 'Superman Theme' form, they obviously have form following function.

You see it in the movies all the time. In the movies you move and the music appears auto-magically.

 

[chinto]

Boomer,

While Hidy Ochiai was using back flips in his Washin-ryu forms back in the 70's and music began being attached to forms in the 70's too (Jhoon Rhee's Bethovan's 5th form and Gary Michank's 'Superman Theme' form, they obviously have form following function.

You see it in the movies all the time. In the movies you move and the music appears auto-magically.

LOL that is bad! its a shame that the rot is as old as it is. personaly i find the gymnastics and other additions towards the "gymkata-esk kind of thing just plain sad, and laughable as far as what you see done when you do see a turnement on TV. just plain sad.

 

[Victor Smith]

Chinto,

I understand what you're saying but let's take it a bit further back, into China.

Many of the Northern Chinese systems incorporated gymnastic techniques in their training, and not just for flipping. In fact those teachings became the root for those systems to form modern Chinese WuShu, combining extreme gymnastics and 'kung fu' techniques.

I've had some minor experience in Faan Tzi Ying Jow Pai, Northern Eagle Claw, and they use the gymnastics as counters for many of the extreme locks they train with. An example might be a cartwheel out of an arm lock that could break your arm (just an illustration, not necessarily a true answer)

Of course there's a large difference from those actual usages and the gymnastics of modern tournments. Then again those who have those skills probably doing what the rest of us cannot do either.

 

[Jin Gang]

Yes, modern wushu takes it to the extreme, but acrobatics are a part of many traditional styles. Being able to fall, roll, and jump are fundamentals like punching, kicking, and stances. Ditang Quan means "ground boxing", it's a traditional northern style from Shandong which, as its name says, is pretty much all on the ground. Falling without getting hurt, rolling, and jumping up again are pretty important skills. a somersualt/monkey roll is a good escape for grabbed foot, or to avoid falling on your face from a front sweep. It also covers distance quickly to get out or into range, and can surprise someone not expecting it.

but this thread started out being about old belts in karate, so not really sure how we ended up here
Chinese masters seem to have a predisposition for wearing shiny, single colored silk outfits. I'd say they probably wash their clothes regularly, to keep them so shiny.

 

[eyebeams]

Yes, modern wushu takes it to the extreme, but acrobatics are a part of many traditional styles. Being able to fall, roll, and jump are fundamentals like punching, kicking, and stances. Ditang Quan means "ground boxing", it's a traditional northern style from Shandong which, as its name says, is pretty much all on the ground. Falling without getting hurt, rolling, and jumping up again are pretty important skills. a somersualt/monkey roll is a good escape for grabbed foot, or to avoid falling on your face from a front sweep. It also covers distance quickly to get out or into range, and can surprise someone not expecting it.

but this thread started out being about old belts in karate, so not really sure how we ended up here
Chinese masters seem to have a predisposition for wearing shiny, single colored silk outfits. I'd say they probably wash their clothes regularly, to keep them so shiny.

You wear gym clothes most of the time in "traditional" CMA. I wish this was true in karate, since the dogi is pretty much irrelevant to most of the technique base. Plus, as an Okinawan MA guy who never bought a dogi, it feels odd to crosstrain with karate guys without one.

Yes, sometimes karate guys in Japan and Okinawa wear old belts, but it's really not the big deal you have here. Plus, a threadbare belt can't be used for certain exercises.

One of the subtexts of moving away from the dogi in some Okinawan arts is a general desire to assert a distinct identity for Okinawan arts. Seikichi Uehara generally tucked a dark top into his pants. Then again, Seikichi Uehara could do whatever the hell he wanted.

 

[chinto]

You wear gym clothes most of the time in "traditional" CMA. I wish this was true in karate, since the dogi is pretty much irrelevant to most of the technique base. Plus, as an Okinawan MA guy who never bought a dogi, it feels odd to crosstrain with karate guys without one.

Yes, sometimes karate guys in Japan and Okinawa wear old belts, but it's really not the big deal you have here. Plus, a threadbare belt can't be used for certain exercises.

One of the subtexts of moving away from the dogi in some Okinawan arts is a general desire to assert a distinct identity for Okinawan arts. Seikichi Uehara generally tucked a dark top into his pants. Then again, Seikichi Uehara could do whatever the hell he wanted.

yep, when you reach his rank and statious you can do as you wish I would think.