drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Probably not enough though.
Muay Thai in MMA
- Thread starter EMT
- Start date
Probably not enough though.
stonewall1350
Blue Belt
Well that is kind of what I mean by "jack of all trades." It doesn't really specialize. It is what you make it. Not all arts are like that, but some can be. There will always be an advantage in training more grappling than the other guy. Or more striking.
What will really change the game is if they make it an Olympic sport. But I don't think that will happen.
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FriedRice
Master Black Belt
Muay Boran? That's like going to BJJ for striking techniques.
What gets me is that fighting on the ground is nothing new. Kids do it from early ages with horse playing. People fought on the ground during wars, or when they are attacked on the roads. Greeks practice wrestling even though they had shields and long spears. So when history shows us things that are involved in hand to hand combat, why do so many think that a system that was used in combat is void of valid grappling techniques? Even in WWI soliders were taught grappling techniques and hand to hand techniques even though they had guns, bomb, planes, and chemical warfare. Do you really think there was less grappling in war as we go back in time before guns? or more? Do you actually think that soldiers back then only knew how to kick, punch, and use a sword?
oh by the way. You think people in BJJ don't know how to strike?
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
It's not just the fighter. It's the fighter, the style and the coaching. There are sloppy MT fighters, but there are way more sloppy whatever else fighters. Most people who sets out to become UFC Fighters, rarely take the route other than the base of BJJ + Muay Thai with Boxing + Wrestling as secondary styles.
Base in other styles can work, but it's rare. MT fighters rarely get in the with pure Boxers is usually because Boxers don't want to get kicked.
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
If you think that that evolution of BJJ for the past 25 years since UFC 1 is akin to kids fighting on the ground, then you're quite ignorant. Grappling in warfare, usually also involves weapons, so a great grappler of that time can still get killed by some peasant soldier who's sucked at grappling. We are obviously talking about unarmed combat in modern times.
Many TMA'ists used to say during the early days of the UFC that it was just a fad. Well, it's been 25 years now and I just came back from my MMA gym, where the kid's BJJ class had about 20 kids in the 1st class and 15 in the 2nd kid's class (competition). The adult's beginner BJJ had around 15 and the all levels BJJ, it was around 30-35. This is an average day, and BJJ is 6 days/week in the mornings and evenings with other classes such as MT, Self Defense, Boxing, Conditioning, etc. It costs $160/month to train 3 classes /week with a 1 year contract and this school has been around since 1996.
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
If you think that the majority of BJJ only people can strike well, then that just says a lot about your own striking skills.
Muay Boran isn't/wasn't a martial art. It's very often misused. All of the old school Thai martial arts are collectively referred to as Muay Boran. The sport Muay Thai, on top of pulling techniques from a variety of Muay Boran arts, had influences from Western boxing and judo. Grappling is a fundamental part of it. Rolling around on the ground like wrestling and BJJ? No, but gripping someone, pulling them into a clinch, and throwing them are.
I don't think it will be as extensive, unless they were able to take part of the grappling and used it as a training tool. I'll have to see if there is a thai wrestling sport out there.
lol. I guess you haven't seen my videos. You definitely haven't sparred with me, because my sparring partners would tell you differently.
Just because someone knows BJJ doesn't mean they lack the skills or ability to punch your lights out.
My point is that if kids are fighting on the ground then the act of fighting on the ground is nothing new. UFC didn't invent ground fighting. BJJ didn't event ground fighting. If you think that people fought in wars without ever fighting on the ground, or that the law enforcers of that time never had to fight on the ground, then that's your ignorance. I can't help that you think no human has ever had to fight on the ground until UFC and that UFC is the ultimate test of ground fighting.
Actually, no there isn't because a fighter has to have more than one fight and they can't go on just fighting people who they have one advantage over. A fighter can't just train one style more than another, they have to be able to fight whoever otherwise they will never get title fights etc, they will be stuck fighting just one type of person. The advantages fighters have is in preparing for a fight, knowing their opponent and working out tactics and getting their prefight training worked out. There is no advantage though in training one style more than another, other fighters will know this and work out their plans accordingly so if you train striking more your opponent will work his tactic out so they do more groundwork, you see it's not an advantage really. Far better to be well rounded and as good at everything as you can be so you are never surprised or outflanked.
No, there aren't more sloppy fighters from other styles, not sure why you would say that. You cannot base all your opinion on one promotion. Unless you have seen multiple promotions and thousands of fighters you can't call it like that. Until recently fighters didn't set out to be 'UFC' fighters ( not sure whether you mean MMA fighters here, you seem to confuse MMA and UFC) it's still relatively new so people were coming into MMA from a variety of backgrounds. Many fighters came from a TMA background, MT has been available for a while but only recently has become popular. Likewise BJJ, many fighters I know came from a Judo background, wrestling is still a rarity in the UK. Most French fighters I know are from a Judo background as that is a very strong sport in France. BJJ is becoming more widespread here and in Europe as more train and become instructors but Judo is still ahead in numbers. Wrestling again is a rarity, though popular in Eastern Europe as well as the Middle Eastern countries like Iran.
I'm just nitpicking here, not remarking on your post in general. My dad fought in WW1 (U.S. Army) We had many conversations about his training in boot camp. (I was already into the Arts) He related that it was brief at best, they just wanted them all pushed through boot camp as fast as possible and onto the front lines.
The U.S. involvement in World War one started a hair shy of one hundred years ago. Damn, I'm fricken old.
We have had commemorations here since 2014, which is when the war started. Next year will be the culmination of them as the ending of the war.
Off topic I know....but does anyone think it would be worth us on MT doing something next year to commemorate the end of the war? It affected so much of the world and the events such as the Second World War that followed as a consequence. I will start a new thread if anyone thinks it's something we could do, rather than derail this one.
Definitely a topic for a different thread, but did you have something specific in mind?
Not at the moment but people here are pretty inventive, I'll post up a new thread in a couple of days, have a full weekend ahead so pretty busy at the moment.
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
Well this is just getting overly picky. Like saying that "Kung-Fu" just means "hard work" or whatever and it should be called Wushu, or whatever instead. There are Muay Boran schools that rolls around, albeit sloppily, on the ground like BJJ...but they still do it it and call themselves Muay Boran.
