Muay Thai in MMA

[Tez3]

I agree that you will see a lot of guys that have strictly MMA training.

But I think the majority of top guys will always be guys that have a strong background in either striking or grappling and have become exceptional at it.

I have to disagree simply because of what I see coming up in the gyms and clubs now, of what we and other coaches are training. They aren't coming to us from other styles very much now, we do get older students who do but not the young ones. Youngsters are seeing MMA fighters and are going straight to MMA training bypassing single styles. It's the future, for now and I daresay quite a few years to come the best will be those who have a strong base style but watch the youngsters coming up.

 

[CB Jones]

We shall agree to disagree then and time will tell.

 

[drop bear]

Much easier to go to Thailand from Oz than it is for us in UK/US, long haul for us. I think the MMA fighters will start becoming more rounded as MMA expands and becomes more mainstream, it's doing not too badly at the moment, a way to go yet before it's up there with boxing, rugby and Aussie rules lol but fighters will have to 'up their game' if and when it becomes a global sport which I hope it does.

And that is the thing though. You can't do muay thai as a base for MMA if the boxing in your area is better.

 

[drop bear]

I agree that you will see a lot of guys that have strictly MMA training.

But I think the majority of top guys will always be guys that have a strong background in either striking or grappling and have become exceptional at it.

You don't have much mma competition for kids. So if you want to start training and competing at 6 you are probably going to grapple.

 

[Tez3]

We shall agree to disagree then and time will tell.

I did tell you my opinion is based on what I see? It's not just my opinion either. Are you involved in MMA or just a watcher of the UFC?

 

[KangTsai]

You don't need to formally train muay Thai to have a base in MMA.

 

[CB Jones]

To me a guy that is a master of one facet will impose his will and force the jack of all trades to fight his type of fight.

More times than not the well rounded fighter will strike with strikers and grapple with grapplers.

I think guys that are great at both are exceptions to the rule not the norm.

I did tell you my opinion is based on what I see? It's not just my opinion either. Are you involved in MMA or just a watcher of the UFC?

Watch a lot of MMA plus we have two friends that are currently pros.

 

[CB Jones]

I did tell you my opinion is based on what I see? It's not just my opinion either. Are you involved in MMA or just a watcher of the UFC?

But mainly just observation from watching and discussions.

I guess I just want to see the proof first.

And so far I just haven't seen that guys that come up doing just MMA are better off than guys that come up with a background in a specific style.

 

[KangTsai]

But mainly just observation from watching and discussions.

I guess I just want to see the proof first.

And so far I just haven't seen that guys that come up doing just MMA are better off than guys that come up with a background in a specific style.

Virtually all UFC fighters never began training in "MMA" specifically. Whether it be boxing, wrestling, BJJ, taekwondo, kung fu, capoeira or karate, every fighter had their routes in a single art and THEN transitioned into meta-game all-rounding of styles not too long before their careers kicked off. If you see anyone who began training MMA (simultaneous training of kickboxing and grappling), it'll usually be the younger fighters.

 

[drop bear]

Virtually all UFC fighters never began training in "MMA" specifically. Whether it be boxing, wrestling, BJJ, taekwondo, kung fu, capoeira or karate, every fighter had their routes in a single art and THEN transitioned into meta-game all-rounding of styles not too long before their careers kicked off. If you see anyone who began training MMA (simultaneous training of kickboxing and grappling), it'll usually be the younger fighters.

Yeah but that was because MMA training wasn't available. It is more so now.

I have not been allowed to do the mma class before unless i proved myself in a thai and bjj class.

Nowadays you just walk in and train with mma veterans.

 

[Tez3]

But mainly just observation from watching and discussions.

I guess I just want to see the proof first.

And so far I just haven't seen that guys that come up doing just MMA are better off than guys that come up with a background in a specific style.

You won't see 'the proof' yet as I said it's the young up and coming, I said give it ten years or so. I train, coach, ref, judge, corner and promote MMA so when I say it's from my experience I see youngsters coming into MMA without training anything else it's because that's what we are starting to see.

Virtually all UFC fighters never began training in "MMA" specifically. Whether it be boxing, wrestling, BJJ, taekwondo, kung fu, capoeira or karate, every fighter had their routes in a single art and THEN transitioned into meta-game all-rounding of styles not too long before their careers kicked off. If you see anyone who began training MMA (simultaneous training of kickboxing and grappling), it'll usually be the younger fighters.

Current UFC fighters yes but they are inspiring youngsters to come along even at a young age to come into MMA without trying other styles first. MMA isn't old enough yet for there to be UFC age fighters not to have come from a single style then branch out to train MMA.

 

[KangTsai]

Current UFC fighters yes but they are inspiring youngsters to come along even at a young age to come into MMA without trying other styles first. MMA isn't old enough yet for there to be UFC age fighters not to have come from a single style then branch out to train MMA.

Well, exactly.

 

[FriedRice]

If a person learned "traditional" Muay Thai (not the sporting one). Then they probably wouldn't need much in terms of an MMA Course.

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Then they'd get taken down all day, and grounded & pounded. Pure strikers are like flipped over turtles on the ground.

 

[FriedRice]

What makes Muay Thai superior to other standup striking MA styles is that it gets right to the point, which is training to knock the other guy the F out, using relevant and practical techniques, right from day #1....which works for both the ring and the streets. Western Boxing will usually get someone from "0" to fighter, quicker, as MT trains kicks, clinch work, etc. But once MT catches up, the low leg kicks will be a big problem for pure Boxers (w/the same amount of training).

 

[Tez3]

What makes Muay Thai superior to other standup striking MA styles is that it gets right to the point, which is training to knock the other guy the F out, using relevant and practical techniques, right from day #1....which works for both the ring and the streets. Western Boxing will usually get someone from "0" to fighter, quicker, as MT trains kicks, clinch work, etc. But once MT catches up, the low leg kicks will be a big problem for pure Boxers (w/the same amount of training).

Again though there's that proviso which is there with all martial arts....it's how you train that matters. I have seen some pretty sloppy Muay Thai fighters and the places they train at. It's not necessarily superior, it very much depends on the person using it....as we keep saying on all the other style v style threads! MT fighters rarely get in the ring with 'pure' boxers though do they?

'Conversations' in the style v style vein are frustration because of it depending so much on the fighter rather than the style. In MMA being honest it matters less what style your stand up or groundwork is than whether you can make it work against your opponent, and having that skill that you also have the heart to fight. All the skills in the world won't help if you don't have the fighter's heart.

 

[stonewall1350]

There is no modern MMA without Thai Kickboxing. Low kicks, elbow and knee strikes are integral parts of Mixed Martial Arts. Stand up striking in the UFC is just Muay Thai and Western Boxing of course with some marginal amount of other martial arts. My point is that while there's a lot of boxing gyms in the US and also should be more Muay Thai gyms that would allow fighters to learn basics and progress to more advanced Muay Thai techniques. MMA is not a discipline on it's own - it is rather a combination of core martial arts. If you start with Muay Thai and then move with it to MMA your life will be easier than when chaotically trying to learn some basic Muay Thai striking in the middle of an MMA course...well my point is that a lot of people are trying to build a house starting with a roof but look at the most dominant champion -= they've always started with one style and then added up more and then maybe trained some MMA to smooth it up and not the other way around.


Muay Thai in MMA explained

I actually think we are seeing a big change. MMA is becoming its own fighting style. A jack of all trades art almost. Look at some of the fighters with excellent skills on one art? They end up losing to another athlete.

I still agree in learning a base art. Mainly to determine where your comfort lies. Grappling? Striking? Counter? Clinch? Sweeps? Trips? Throws? Takedowns? Shooting? I wouldn't mind seeing more Muay Thai, but boxing and kickboxing are also good. Not everyone is a clinch fighter :shrug:


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[JowGaWolf]

Then they'd get taken down all day, and grounded & pounded. Pure strikers are like flipped over turtles on the ground.

The Muay Thai that I'm speaking of has grappling in it.

 

[Tez3]

MMA is becoming its own fighting style. A jack of all trades art almost.

That contradicts itself, it cannot be a style of it's own yet a jack of all trades. It is evolving into a style, using techniques from other styles but modified to a fighter's personal liking. That doesn't make them a jack of all trades at all. Most people these days can't, when they watch a fight, tell which style a technique is from, the fighters have made them seamless and flowing one to another. It is becoming a whole not a mishmash of techniques.
There will come a time when people won't be discussing which base styles to have, which techniques to take but will learn MMA as a whole entity in it's own right. I guess many styles won't want that to happen because they lose their bragging rights about what works in MMA, they won't be able to boast as many do that such and such fighter came from their style so 'it must work'. Times move on, we must too or else MMA will disappear as many fads do.
I find it quite exciting, I hope I'm around to see it!

 

[Buka]

What I've seen over the years is - more people, nowadays, are coming into MMA competition with MMA training as their base experience. It's because of the availability now. I think what opportunities/resources they have at their disposal tend to make their paths from there.

I think what also might factor in - say you first start MMA training, let's say it's a really good gym, well rounded. Some part of your training it is going to come more natural for you. (It is for everyone) If the grappling seems like your strong point, you might decide to focus any extra time on that. I know, I know, you should focus on your weaker attributes, but that's not how human nature always works.

Another thing to consider - if I'm competing against you in MMA and I happen to know your base art is a striking art, do you think I'm going to let you dictate the fight into a striking match? I don't think any of us would hesitate to take away that part of the opponents game - IF we knew how.

 

[Tez3]

I happen to know your base art is a striking art, do you think I'm going to let you dictate the fight into a striking match?

That's the main part of the coach/manager's job. To firstly find a fighter that is a good match for theirs. Next to learn their strengths, weaknesses and tells, then come up with the tactics for the fight. No fighter should be going into their fight not knowing their opponent's game and with no plan/tactics, that's a recipe for disaster.